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Honda Civic G2 Build

160K views 248 replies 44 participants last post by  randydeaton 
#1 · (Edited)
Got my feet wet with my VW but I felt it was time to move on to something else. I wanted to go with a Honda for a while. After searching around I got myself an 1996 EK hatch with a B16A2 swap from a 1999 Civic Si from a local guy. I am building this car for stage rally first, but I am going to try to mee H1/H2 Honda Challenge rules so I can do road races at Mid-Ohio if I want.

Goal right now is to get out on the stages first and then slowly upgrade/replace parts as I go along. I'm probably going to get sucked into building a super car, but that's way beyond my budget. I want to make the car drivable/presentable for track day testing with rally debut for at LSPR for MaxAttack! in October.

I'll do my best to keep updates on this and index everything on this first post so people can do a quick reference.

So let the build begin!!!


Table of Contents:

The car, and tearing out interior. Post 2
Tearing out more interior w/ HVAC removal. Cage feet cleaning and glass removal. Engine shot.Post 21
Ghetto cruiser! Post 22
Partial cage install. Post 30
Cage finished and underside of car shots. Post 36
Removal of tea cup saucer brakes. Post 37
Declutter of rear hatch wiring. Post 68
Pulling of motor, brake master/booster, clutch master. Post 84.
Stitch welding interior, dash mounts, pedal box mounts, filled motor mounts, rotisserie, hydro handbrake. Post 91
Haven't been in a rally, but I got the car on its roof already... Post 93
Finished stitch welding and pin jack stands Post 99
Epoxy underside, starting interior painting, painted engine bay, front bracing, pin jack.s Post 106
Interior painting, sway bar mounts, fuel/brake lines, interior dash wiring. Post 187
Transmission work. Post 188
Suspension/Brakes. Post 189
Rear Skidplate fabrication @ TRF and glimpses of underbody HDPE. Post 190
Cleaning of the washer reservoir/pumps. Post 197
Underbody and battery tray. Post 211
 
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#2 ·




The car still needed some work. Had the front end from a silver 2000 EX coupe, black engine bay, and a bad white paint job. But it looks good from 20 feet so that's what a race car is all about, huh? Mainly wanted the swap already done so I didn't have to worry about finding parts and making sure it worked.

So getting into this, I'm getting my cage installed by Thompson Racing Fabrication and I need to prep the shell. That means tearing out stuff!

Removed most of interior bits





Worked another day tearing apart the dash and the rest of the head liner and a pillar trim.






More to come!
 
#5 ·
I paid a bit extra for the car because of the "mods" but I figured I could make some bucks back selling all the pimper stuff. He was all excited when he was showing the interior and I just said, "Eh, that's all gonna get torn out anyway". I am going to weigh everything I took out of the car to give an idea of what I took out and how much weight savings I had as well so that update will come later.

There's a bunch of things that were changed and most was done by young kids so it's more than likely done ghetto or missing. But most of the stuff that needed attention I was going to be tearing apart anyway or removing so I wasn't to worried about it. The brakes suck and can't seem to get solid pedal feel and it's real mushy (re-bled with 2L of fluid and nothing improved). But good thing I'm replacing the brake lines and master anyway.

Glad to see another Civic in the works. Good luck with the project. If you have any questions about anything let me know, I'm neck deep into building mine.
What gen are you building? I was looking between an EG and EK. I wanted an EG for integra suspension parts swapping but ended up with the EK since I got a good price on the car with the swap. I just like the EK in looks better since it was my dream car when I started driving to have an EK Civic Type R. I thought about doing an EP build, but the initial cost was too expensive to start. The K series stuff is nice, but you can get similar performance from a B series for a lot less.
 
#11 ·
I'm pretty sure this is the case. I'm still dabbling around on components here and what swaps around. I know with axles, EK/EG/DC are all the same (length and splines) because when I blew up one of Evan Moen's outer CVs at a rallycross in his ITR we used an axle from an EK civic to replace it.

92-00 civic suspension is all the same... (At least that I recall. I seem to remember everything being 92-00 when buying stuff years back)
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Springs will go between EG/EK civic and DC integra. Shocks won't (directly at least). The EG/DC are all 100% swappable with parts (Control arms, trailing arms, shocks/springs). EK's geometry is a bit different, thus the need to swap the subframe to fit the lower control arms. The only thing that is swapable between EG/EK/DC is the rear trailing arms?

But for rallying, EG would be the easiest since you swap over all the integra control arms and spindles which are beefier than the respective civic components. EK is going to take a bit more hybridization with parts but it still exists.

I should make a spreadsheet of all this in a way. All of the Honda guys want to go for the lightest weight possible and not for the beefy stuff so it's a bit hard to find the information out there. Most guys just want a rear disc swap and leave it at that with their car slammed on EBAY coil-overs.
 
#12 ·
Front lower control arms, front upper control arms, rear lower control arms are different. Due to the rear lower control arms being different, rear dampers are also different.

As for the billion dollar suspension question... there's a lot of options, from mild to wild. You can get Proflex, Ohlins, Sellholm, DMS, Dynamics, RSSP, Hotbits, etc.

As for running M Factory crap in the gearbox, well I have bad experience, and so have pretty much all the civic guys in the Irish tarmac circuit. (You can check it out on rallyforums.com for horror stories)
It wrecked my old RSX's box when the final drive pinion sheered and it took out 2nd-3rd and the Quaife LSD. They never even cared to reply to me. It happened on a transit after only 3 stages. It was the first even on the part so it had less than 100km's.
 
#15 · (Edited)
As for running M Factory crap in the gearbox, well I have bad experience, and so have pretty much all the civic guys in the Irish tarmac circuit. (You can check it out on rallyforums.com for horror stories)
It wrecked my old RSX's box when the final drive pinion sheered and it took out 2nd-3rd and the Quaife LSD. They never even cared to reply to me. It happened on a transit after only 3 stages. It was the first even on the part so it had less than 100km's.
Is it just final drive related? I know Matt Johnston's got the full close ratio set + 4.9 gear, granted he's ran 2 stages in LSPR and NEFR on it. But I was looking to get the 3,4,5 set with the stock 4.4 final and then going to a 4.9 once I beefed up the engine to rev higher.

What other companies make close gear kits besides quaife and are good? Or is it come down to the "get what you pay for" motto? I asked my good friend google, but he can tell me what's available but not what is good/crap.
 
#13 ·
While the EG and EK front LCAs are different, I thought it was just minor geometry and the fact that the EG arm bolts together, where the EK is one piece?

I'm 99% certain that the EG front shocks will bolt right up to an EK. Worst case requires the EG fork as well, but I think they're the same between the EG and the EK.

I don't think there's really much difference (aside from minor geometry changes) between the corresponding Civic and Integra arms - at least as far as the EF/DA stuff goes, the only difference is that the DA rear LCA is a teeny bit longer - castings seem to be very similar sizes, so probably not noticeably stronger.
 
#14 ·
While the EG and EK front LCAs are different, I thought it was just minor geometry and the fact that the EG arm bolts together, where the EK is one piece?

I'm 99% certain that the EG front shocks will bolt right up to an EK. Worst case requires the EG fork as well, but I think they're the same between the EG and the EK.

I don't think there's really much difference (aside from minor geometry changes) between the corresponding Civic and Integra arms - at least as far as the EF/DA stuff goes, the only difference is that the DA rear LCA is a teeny bit longer - castings seem to be very similar sizes, so probably not noticeably stronger.
Yes the shocks are the same. The difference in the front control arms are more than just a simple geometry. Just google it for pics.
 
#21 · (Edited)
More updates...

Started to rip more out of the dash. Needed to move the HVAC stuff from the passenger side so it could be pulled in/out for install of the pass through to the shock tower.

So I needed to make this:



Like this:



I ended up taking out the dash bar just get an easier idea of how things were set up. It looks like a mess, but it's actually a lot easier to get around there without the bar in the way. Also pulled the door cards out as I plan on running polyboard inserts.

Not sure if I want to stick with the power window setup. Having crank windows means I won't need any wires running into the door, and one less thing to worry about breaking. It's pretty tempting to go back and should be easy to just swap my power window doors with someone who has manual doors. Plus I can make some cash on it!






Next up was cleaning up the areas for the cage feet. Only got pictures of 4 of 8 so here we go...

Driver's main hoop:


Driver's foot. When I pulled up the carpet, I realized the previous owner must have jacked up the car with the floor. This caused it to bend all to hell and rip along the frame. Bummer to fix, but thankfully it is fixable.


Passenger main hoop:


Passenger foot:




Next was removing the windshield and rear windows. Almsot was able to salvage the windshield, but as I was pulling it up one SMALL area was still stuck down as I was pulling from the opposite corner. Before I realized it... CRACK went the windshield. Bummer...



If you're wondering what's under the tools.... yes, it is a Fugen (fake Mugen) valve cover. No, I did not put it there. The beauty of buying a swap already done by your local street pimpers.
 
#26 ·
Driver's foot. When I pulled up the carpet, I realized the previous owner must have jacked up the car with the floor. This caused it to bend all to hell and rip along the frame. Bummer to fix, but thankfully it is fixable.
Oh man. That reminds me of the time, years ago, that I accidentally drove over one of those concrete parking lot wheel stop things with a '94 Civic. Got in the car, forgot it was there, and tried to pull forward out of the space. By the time I realized I was climbing something the front wheels were already coming down the other side. When the suspension compressed it smacked the floor pans right about in that spot. I decided, having gotten the oil pan over it unscathed, the smart thing to do would be to continue forward. This was a good theory except I smashed the muffler when the rear wheels went over. Not one of my brighter moments. ;)
 
#22 ·
Now that I was ready to go to get the cage put in, I needed to bring it back to street legal form. Presto chango, ghetto cruiser! Nothing like duct tape holding on the windshield and sporting mismatched VW wheels with Hankook RS2's in the front and General Tire Altimax winter tires in the back. At least I got a leather seat!





And here's me being droned out by the 4500 rpm around 80mph.... At least I like the drive better than my VW. Hey, there's a McDonald's this exit. To bad they don't have shamrock shakes anymore.
 
#29 ·
That looks like an exit sign in Ontario.

Now that I was ready to go to get the cage put in, I needed to bring it back to street legal form. Presto chango, ghetto cruiser! Nothing like duct tape holding on the windshield and sporting mismatched VW wheels with Hankook RS2's in the front and General Tire Altimax winter tires in the back. At least I got a leather seat!



And here's me being droned out by the 4500 rpm around 80mph.... At least I like the drive better than my VW. Hey, there's a McDonald's this exit. To bad they don't have shamrock shakes anymore.
 
#23 ·
Billy, get a proposal together with pictures with circles and arrows and paragraphs, then put on a respectable shirt and shoes, and go down to Liberty's gears in Taylor. (They were right down the road from me when I lived in Fordland.)

Dog kits for B series. Is that what you need? http://www.libertysgears.com/frontwheeldrive.htm

They make gud stuff. They do the boxes for the Pratt and Miller GT1 cars (factory vettes and caddys), not just drag stuff. They fixed up gears in my Xtrac more economically than mother England, too.

The kit looks expensive...but you gotta ask if you want help. Nobody gives you stuff without asking. At least they're in your backyard and they make good stuff.

Good luck.
 
#24 ·
Thanks for direction on where to put my foot in the door. Looks nice but I'm not to sure about the gear ratios. Be nice as a 4 spd box w/ no 5th but even if I put an OEM 5th paired with their options of final drives I still wouldn't use it enough to really justify it being there, especially once I start going over 8k rpm. To me, the ratios look more like a drag box. Makes every gear 1-4 longer than OEM which really isn't where I want to go with an N/A motor.

But I'm guessing these guys do custom gears and that's where the shirt/slacks and fancy charts/graphs/paragraphs come into play.
 
#27 ·
I agree. It does drop some weight, but I'd rather be able to have my co-driver not have to open the door every time to hand off a timecard. After ever stage we're opening our doors to put on the crank and rolling down the windows. For a while we even shared one crank for both doors.

For the record, the rear EK shocks just have a narrower fork. So you could use the EG/DC shocks with a custom LCA or use spacers.

I have the shock diagrams for all these cars, used them to have the Integra shocks built.
 
#30 ·
Cage is finished and I am going to pick up the car today.

I had visited TRF on Saturday to check on the cage progress and snapped a few pictures. I still need to resize these so prepare for large pictures.


Main hoop connect to the floor/sill on the driver's side. Very solid connection.



This is a view from the back. Went with the "V" in the rear because less material is used while still retaining a solid triangulation. This also gives force distribution/support to the center of the main hoop as well instead of sending it all the the corners of the main hoop. I will be adding a cross shock tower brace that ties in to the chassis.




Roof V. Very tight fit on these. The bars are actually touching the roof skin at the bend so there's no way I could have got any more room out of this setup. Same goes for the junction of the windshield cross bar and a-pillar bars. Opted for cutting access areas through the roof to get access to the welds. This was because I wanted the main hoop and a-pillar bars tied into the sill and didn't want to do the punch through the floor method to get to the top welds. I could have taken off the roof to give it a cleaner look, but I planned to respray the car anyway so patching/filling the cut areas won't be too much work added.




Ryan sent me this picture of the cage just before the install of gussets. You may notice that the a-pillar support bar is different on both sides of the car. To get more steering wheel clearance it was brought into the door X on the driver side. I opted for this over just bending the bar because I like straight bars heading into a well gusseted junction. Since the co-driver is sitting pretty far back the a-pillar support could be layed out as a straight and solid bar for the passenger side. And this way, a gusset is not required and better structural support.




More to come once I pick up the car.
 
#32 ·
You might want to think about adding some gussets for that passenger a-pillar support, it couldn't hurt...
Yes, they are already put in. My pictures were taken before all the gussets were put in. I'll get some pictures up this weekend since I'll be in the garage tomorrow.
 
#34 ·
Looks good!

I'm going to start the chassis strip this weekend and prep for stitch welding. Also, reading Honda Challenge allowances, I think I'm going to go with H1 rules. Allows a better freedom in engine build and I can go with a dual master brake setup as well.
 
#35 ·
i am from canada , we don't have honda cup, best upgrade is brake upgrade

heres what i did , i have the 96 specR 4x114.5 bolt pattern
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2642910

i did some seam welding, from what i found the biggest weak spot is the connection between front and fire wall. do this
http://www.honda-tech.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=33615&stc=1&d=1240160446

the other problem is supension travel, i am still working on it, i have spaces on the struts, i have tried moving the adjustable coil overs up, civics are ment to be lowered, they are hard to raise

my engine i am building a b16a stroker (1.8) L , 13:1 comp (i know its high) hondata, crower 2 3/4 race cams, should put out over 200.

if your going group 2 look at F20B, or b18c , or even if you want to go crazy k20. keep me posted i wouldlove to bounce ideas off you ,
 
#36 · (Edited)
Got the car back last week from Thompson Racing Fabrication and very pleased with the results. Seat was not put in, just there being store. Seat mounts are still yet to be done.

View through driver's door:



Main hoop gusset:



Rear and TRF logo:



While I was at TRF I took some shots under the car while it was on a lift. Mainly because I don't have a lift so a reference pic to the underside always helps.

Rear:



Middle:



Front:



Next up, swapping brakes...
 
#37 ·
So next up was the brake swap. My buddy and I had a nice deal working out. He currently has the EX/Si brakes which are 10.3 rotors and are what I wanted. He wanted the Wilwood 11" 4-piston kit which needs my DX/CX knuckles. He didn't want the 12.3" kit, because in order for them to fit he would have needed to get spacers and longer studs which would mean pressing out his hub and more work/money. Plus he didn't need that crazy of a brake kit. So with that, I get his EX/Si brakes and he gets my CX/DX knuckles. Pretty good deal!

So I started working on the passenger side. Everything was going good, but the lower ball joint was being a son of a gun getting out of the lower control arm. First I tried being gentle, then solid hammer smacks, then a pry bar, then a torch... Still wouldn't come out. So finally I pulled off the whole lower control arm and used my precision press to knock it out... and it worked!!!




Next was the driver's side. As I started taking it apart, I noticed something... odd. I saw a cut off wire and then saw it lead to a wheel speed sensor. I thought to myself, "EK hatches never came with ABS. That was only the EX sedans that came with ABS...?!?" So I took the passenger rotor and layed it up on top of my driver's side one. My suspicion was correct... I was sporting a separate brake setups on each side! Guess these are the kinds of surprises you find when you buy a car from the local street pimpers...


Passenger rotor on top... one is not like the other!



DX/CX rotor:



EX w/ ABS rotor:



That pretty much explains the car pulling to the left under heavy braking. At least I'll now have a spare caliper/rotor/knuckle for the driver's side!

So with all that, made a run out to the u-pull-it and got a new (rather used) knuckle. It took a chunk out of the day we didn't expect to spend... I'm still baffled why they went through with it. Either way, I'll be ripping his rotors/calipers/knuckles off his car and putting them on mine sometime this week.

Until next time...
 
#38 ·
Fuel Tank Guard

Billy,

Great progress on your car!

I ended up making the kevlar tank guard we talked about-it turned out great! Fits like a glove over the tank so exhaust routing is not compromised like it was with my previous aluminum guard.

George
 
#39 ·
Got some pics of the tank guard? I was looking at doing an aluminum and had the same issue with the exhaust routing in the front. How did you do your aluminum tank cover as well?
 
#42 ·
I was asking George details on how you made it up but then I did a search and found out it's from a company on the Irish rally forums. I might have to pick up one of these. Be a bit more than I was budgeting for an aluminum tank guard, but it won't be sitting low like the aluminum guard would be.
 
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