Whao what a welcome from Vanlandingham !
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Thread: Whao what a welcome from Vanlandingham !

  1. #1
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    Default Whao what a welcome from Vanlandingham !

    I've had a chance to browse a few forums here and read a bit of back and fourth banter between certain people.

    I'm not sure where the rivalry comes from relating to Vanlandingham, but wow what a welcome I received from him !

    Such a wealth of information and he's not affraid to take the time to fully explain a question.

    John you do seem partial to the 240 and that Ford with the funny name (kinda reminds me of US made Hagen Daz ice cream). Everything you said makes perfect sense.

    I guess i'm a square peg in a round hole, I really like the looks some of the of the Japanese RWD cars of the 70's and 80's.

    The motor you built for that BC mainlander looks awesome in that car ! Upright carbs, huge header, I like it ! What would a car like that cost to build ?

    Are there any other "Jap Skit" RWD cars that you'd recommend ? (just don't tell my ancestors, "Svensk heritage")

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  3. #2
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    Default RE: Whao what a welcome from Vanlandingham !

    >I've had a chance to browse a few forums here and read a bit
    >of back and fourth banter between certain people.
    >
    >I'm not sure where the rivalry comes from relating to
    >Vanlandingham, but wow what a welcome I received from him !
    >
    >Such a wealth of information and he's not affraid to take the
    >time to fully explain a question.

    Pojke, its just a differnt view on what the SPORT should be.
    I learned my view by seeing it in action "där borta", and nobody had to lecture to me. Motorcross in the early 70s in the US and BC (where I had my first ever competition licence) was really small time.
    In BC anyway it was club based and club run and pretty darn loose, the track was on Piet Van Brughels land and there was fun competiton and a "on the spot" decison on things after a general meeting if there was some problem. Worked good.

    In California where I moved in 1970, it was a "promoter" with big "vision" big Promises who organised events and there was a steady rise in entry fees at the same time as a steady decline in saddle time.
    And always the justifications "we gotta do this if we ever are going to get into the Big Time.
    THEN I moved to Sweden and saw how motorsport WAS essentially a social organisation, the bikes and even the competition being excuses for getting together and have fun playing and yakking and drinking and for some internal testing of oneself to whatever individual measure we had selected for ourselves.
    But the thing that allowed the whole thing to function was the club structure wher there was some semblance of "legitimacy" and where the important social networks of who welds, who build boxes , who studs tires, who knows suspension, and even as much as 20 years later my old riding partner and work mate Peter Fredh was buying the entire hotwater heating and plumbing system for the house I was helping him build from an old 250 juniour Klass-kamrat Lasse Husak.
    People took their cars to Borje Allner's garage, or for crashed cars to "The Laughing Brothers" body shop, or came to where I worked for some fab and welding, we all worked "fill in" jobs when guys got injured or were later good enough to go utomlands to France for International events.
    That's the same way that rally was and is to this day oprgasnised there and i "grannlandet" Finland, and it seems to produce a situation which allows those little countries to produce literally 10s of thousands of drivers who are pretty darn good, and dozen who are the best in the world.
    Thru co-operation.

    That clashes with the "recieved wisdom" of it's all brave strong individuals who accomplish EVERYTHING all by themselves, and that one need to turn to "professionals" for everything.
    >
    >John you do seem partial to the 240 and that Ford with the
    >funny name (kinda reminds me of US made Hagen Daz ice cream).
    >Everything you said makes perfect sense.

    Don't know if I'd say perfect, but if one follows it it makes "pretty darn good sense".
    >
    >I guess i'm a square peg in a round hole, I really like the
    >looks some of the of the Japanese RWD cars of the 70's and
    >80's.
    Well I'll give you a hint: sheetmetal and glass are problems as well as simply finding cheap 200 buckski shells.
    Too many rusted away in BC and were smooshed, and down here they were just jap-crap and after maybe 1990 as soon as they hit the wriecking yards they were smooshed.
    Do you really want to pay 2000 bucks for an old scrod-mobile?
    >
    >The motor you built for that BC mainlander looks awesome in
    >that car ! Upright carbs, huge header, I like it ! What would
    >a car like that cost to build ?

    A lot these days.
    On that one a lot of that was done when the original owner was foreman at a Fireplace insert mfg and he could shear stuff and bend it so fast it twern't funny. He also got the motor from me essentially at cost since we did so much together then.
    >
    >Are there any other "Jap Skit" RWD cars that you'd recommend ?
    >(just don't tell my ancestors, "Svensk heritage")
    No honest I can't really reccomend any rwd Japcrap given what you said in your initial request about something that could be built up and be competitive.
    Most old Jap things were a bad combination of flimsy AND oddly HEAVY and had appalingly bad handling, and grossly bad steering.
    As an example of acending craziness:
    Ford 2,0 Pinto crank is stout enough for 190 bhp as is, cast iron
    Ford 2,3 is stouter on the mains and heavier, still cast
    Volvo 2,1 or 2,3 are even stouter yet and they're forged steel
    Mitsubishi 1,8 and 2,0 versions of this Mitsu use the same crank and its bigger than the VOLVO CRANK and forged steel.
    That makes the thing substantially bigger and stronger than small block Chevvy cranks and nearly as big as Big Block Chev
    For a poxy POS crap little 1800 with maybe 65 bhp!!

    They tend toward narrow bores and super tiny valves, bad for making power.
    Even if you do spend money>
    Their suspension is usually weak, with limited travel and bad designs
    (although the Volvo is same design)
    As a rule they have appalingly bad breaks.
    And generally they are small and cramped.
    Just look how poorly the cars did back when they were current against similar sized Fords, Fiats, Opels.

    Nååå, grabbe, look to your roots.
    The "East is Red" is an old song from the Revolution here in China, and we are on the Pacific Rim in the NorthWest but I suggest you look closer to your roots.
    There is a fellow named Dave Sharp up in Edonton, he ran a Datsun us old geezers refer to as "Alleged 510s" cause Nissan drug out the revered name 510 hoping to (cynically) capitalise on the good feeling left over from the REAL 510s from 68-73.
    He killed it and what did he decide to get?
    A black Xratty.
    As did a near neighbor of his, another black Xratty.

    A fellow down here, "Seattle Scott" Koch used a B210 or some horible thing, till the strut towers went riiiiip/bang.
    What did he get?
    A blue Xratty

    My oldest rally friend with a real 510 parked it. Too expensive to ge replacemenbt panels and glass now that hoarders and eBay are so ubiquitous.

    Two boys in Colorado both decided the Xratty makes tons of sense since it does have all those things we liked in those old simple cars but they're easier to find and keep going and importantly, to progressively upgrade if you choose to.
    (There are a number of different motors which go straight into the car from 2,0 8v OHC, to 2,3 OHC to V6 to 2,0 DOHC Ford Cosworths ALL of which are pretty darn good.)( the 2300OHC and the Cosworth are damn good staright out of the box making more than enough fun for a beginner, in easy to drive stock form)

    In house I call the things "the 510 of the 90s" except the 90s are done.






    John Vanlandingham
    Seattle, WA. 98168

    janvanvurpa (at) f4 (dot) ca

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
    Vive Le Groupe F!


  4. #3
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    Default RE: Whao what a welcome from Vanlandingham !

    John thanks for chiming in helping me along the path of vehicle decision making.

    A couple of more questions from a wanna be : )

    How about cars like the Datsun 240Z, Mitsubitchi Lancer (old RWD version) ?

    Wasn't there Works Datsun 240Z Rally Cars in the early 70's ?

    The 240Z at 2393cc seems like it would be a pretty competitive Gr2 platform with a ported head, cam, and big side draft carbs.

    Or am I affected by the constant "whif" of rather "interesting air" here on Saltspring ?




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    Default RE: Whao what a welcome from Vanlandingham !

    >How about cars like the Datsun 240Z

    Holy crap! Not only is that one of the flimsiest chassis ever made, but finding a decent shell is EXPENSIVE!

    Don't worry about the engine in a RWD, that can be fixed.


  7. #5
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    Default RE: Whao what a welcome from Vanlandingham !

    Hey Remner,

    A quick google search yielded this :

    http://winktimber.com/vintagerally/cars/hintz240.htm

    It appears that not all feel that the 240Z chassis is the flimsy turd that you say it is.

    But since you responded to the 240Z question... what do you think about the early RWD Mitsubitchi Lancer's ?

  8. #6
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    Default RE: Whao what a welcome from Vanlandingham !

    >Hey Remner,
    >
    >A quick google search yielded this :
    >
    >http://winktimber.com/vintagerally/cars/hintz240.htm
    >
    >It appears that not all feel that the 240Z chassis is the
    >flimsy turd that you say it is.
    >
    >But since you responded to the 240Z question... what do you
    >think about the early RWD Mitsubitchi Lancer's ?
    Thomas pojken,
    trust me the Zs were run as a merketing decision, not a competitiveness decision.
    I've had a good 2-3 cups of tea with one of the poor sods that had to drive those things, Tony Fall, and he said they were just what I expected: vile pooly balanced Piles of sheet AS SOON AS IT WAS THE LEAST BIT SLIPPERY.
    Poor weight balance is always a problem when a car is essentially compromised to be a styling excercise.
    Big heavy loooooooooooooooooooooong inline 6 makes for pig-like handling.
    Short wheelbase and chassi makes for a NERVOUS twitchy car (mistaken by many for 'nimble'
    Poor outwards visibility due to seating position and loooooooooooong nose, bad when zooming down roads ya never seen before.

    And that goes for any car thats mainly a compromised "style" queen (Mitsubish Eclipse SPRING! to mind)

    As for oily Mitsu Lancers, um I think that's what this 74 thing we call the Vodge that BC Boy Morten is getting.

    I think you a) might have a fun time finding them and b) find that they have the deficient brakes, and crappy to really mod motors and c) grim slow steering with recirculating ball= dead on center feel
    d) HEAVY.

    Please, at least make sure you get something with at LEAST 97" wheelbase and rack and pinion steering.
    Maybe think about Nissan 200SX, that has some potential and Nissan while building a flimsy shell (according to BC boy Vic Harvey) and a heavy one, does have some fun powerplants in the right sizes and a lot of swaps are posible (can you say SR20DE)
    Problem is again in finding one, lots were crushed, and now the drift pervs are in a buying frenzy and driving prices up.
    You could say that about any 80s rwd Japcrap.
    70s were too horrible and heavy and bad motors tint brakes and slow steering, 80s heavy and now priced stooooopid.

    Thomas as recently as 1990, I woulda said OK get a 1980 Toiletta Commodah just cause we had one of the best drivers in the US,
    Vern Johnson from Portland, OR kicking ass and even matching and beating the best National times in one. And he weren't doing it with some killah motor but just some Jap import 2,0 8v version of the 3TC, so it could be done.
    And in those days finding a free or 100 buck Commodah was easy, so WHEN you wadded it you could be out in the woods again in a couple of months of liesurly reshelling.

    They're gone now.
    You know it turns out Vern has a couple of (are you ready........)
    Xratties now.

    See it sems that the Xratties a great combination of what we need and orphan enough that silly children/clone clowns aren't driving prices up like the '85 Corrolla I looked at to build a drift car and send to my Chinese partner rally guy to go drifting in between rallies.
    Geezer wanted 1960 buckskis Americaine for the thing WITH A BLOWN DEAD TO RATSHEEET MOTOR.
    And my Datsun/Nissan friends say the same thing has happened to "real 510s" and to the 200SX onwards.

    Oh forget Celicas, PIG heavy and shitskisteering, pain in the ace to build a good motor for them.


    Go EAST (from BC anyway) Young man. Or Over the Polcirclen.

    I suppose i should ask: whaddya got against European cars?
    Do you not LIKE helpful info from manufacturers who _supported rally_?

    And yeah maybe there's something in the air that's makin you a little dis-orientat-a-mamted. (stop smokin' that stuff!)







    John Vanlandingham
    Seattle, WA. 98168

    janvanvurpa (at) f4 (dot) ca

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
    Vive Le Groupe F!


  9. #7
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    Default RE: Whao what a welcome from Vanlandingham !

    >Hey Remner,
    >
    >A quick google search yielded this :
    >
    >http://winktimber.com/vintagerally/cars/hintz240.htm
    >
    >It appears that not all feel that the 240Z chassis is the
    >flimsy turd that you say it is.
    >
    You are right, there are some that think that ALL modern 70s and later chassi are flimsy turds and ALL require careful stitch welding and selective doubling of skin in mounting points and well thought out cages, at least if you want things to be more or less straight after 1 season.
    JV
    19-sixtynine Saab 96





    John Vanlandingham
    Seattle, WA. 98168

    janvanvurpa (at) f4 (dot) ca

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
    Vive Le Groupe F!


  10. #8
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    Default RE: Whao what a welcome from Vanlandingham !

    Oh I never said I was smoking any of that stuff... I believe the terminology was getting a whif of interesting air -

    That implies "second hand smoke".

    Isn't that the defence that that Ross snowboarding guy from Whistler used a few years back ?

    Anyways back to ahhhh hmmmm duh where was I ? Danm short term memory loss !

    Oh yeah...

    So the 240 is a turd mobile, and you mean the Colt is actually a Lancer ?

    Damn, all of a sudden I like that little red car more. Yeah I'm not a Mopar fan (if you can can call a 4 cylinder turd can sheet box a Mopar that is).

    So the motor in BC Boy Morten's car is limited in potential and the steering sucks, so that spells, piece of crap in my books - Sorry mainlander Morten.

    But John, why work on a piece of crap and boast about the motor on the forum ?

    I get the feel like you're pushing me towards the Volvo or the Sierra.

    One question comes to mind, do you specialize in these cars and their parts. I'm not being hustled am I ?

    Okay, that's the Swede coming out of me. Straight and to the point. No offence intended, hopefully you're not breathing into a brown paper bag.

    What do I have against Euro cars ?

    Well nothing really.

    I've had a few :

    1974 Alfa Arachnid (fun little injected 2.0 Hemi)
    1972 BMW 2002 tii
    1972 Citroen sm
    1973 Truimph Stag

    I loved them all, well some more than others. What was it Lucas said ? "Don't leave home after dark?"

    The tii was a great car, I loved it !

    I always wanted an Sunbeam Tiger or a Jensen Interceptor Convertible (yeah yeah... I know it had Mopar power). With todays prices, I wish i had bought several tigers in the 1980's !

    But and there's always a but... modified Jap cars are cool too.

    But perhaps my current thinking is significantly flawed ?



  11. #9
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    Default RE: Whao what a welcome from Vanlandingham !

    >Oh I never said I was smoking any of that stuff... I believe
    >the terminology was getting a whif of interesting air -
    >
    >That implies "second hand smoke".
    >
    >Isn't that the defence that that Ross snowboarding guy from
    >Whistler used a few years back ?

    I think I saw some guys smokin' something strange once when I lived in Berkely in like 1971.
    >
    >Anyways back to ahhhh hmmmm duh where was I ? Danm short term
    >memory loss !

    I think.......
    >
    >Oh yeah...
    >
    >So the 240 is a turd mobile, and you mean the Colt is actually
    >a Lancer ?
    >
    >Damn, all of a sudden I like that little red car more. Yeah
    >I'm not a Mopar fan (if you can can call a 4 cylinder turd can
    >sheet box a Mopar that is).
    Hey I can't keep staright what the japanese call their stuff on various market!
    I THINK the 74 "Dooodge Colt" was a Mitsubishi "Lancer" on some markets. Saw a hot red one in Manila and had a ciggie with the owner and we tried to talk motors and carbs!
    >
    >So the motor in BC Boy Morten's car is limited in potential
    >and the steering sucks, so that spells, piece of crap in my
    >books - Sorry mainlander Morten.
    No not in MORTEN's car, we changed the crap 4.7 turns jap junk to 2.2 turn Saab V4 rack, and if somebody ever listens to what I suggest and moves the second U joint upwards and gets a better angle of approch to the rack it'll be damn good steering, but the original owner Paul didn't due to time issues once the car was ready (running the car or awaiting body work after he lent it to Dave Clark who promtly flipped it)never got round to it and the second owner had the car at a shop which dispite advice to that effect were not able to manage to do it for some reason.

    And the drawbacks of the LONG STROKE 2,0 and 2,6 were addressed to a large degree in the hybrid SHORT STROKE 2,4.
    More compression FOR A CHEAP BEGINNER LEVEL of expenditure and ignition management is a thorn in my toe.
    Remember, its all a compromise, and herewe couldn't get a big POP to make ft/lbs so we went for a big MOTOR.
    Problem solved.
    >
    >But John, why work on a piece of crap and boast about the
    >motor on the forum ?

    All cars are pieces of crap. (just in differnt ways). My background is 20 years on nice simple sturdy (European) moto-cross bikes) so it takes a pretty amazing car to make me even flic the ash off a ciggy.
    >
    >I get the feel like you're pushing me towards the Volvo or the
    >Sierra.

    Ahhh goood the message is getting thru.
    I think sometimes I'm too "subtile", and trop douce, and 'allusive'.
    >
    >One question comes to mind, do you specialize in these cars
    >and their parts. I'm not being hustled am I ?
    Well, this year so far the "SHEER PANIC MUST!!! DO!! List" has on it
    Subaru STI motor for Dave Hintz, WA
    Mistsubishi motor, and install for Morten, BC
    Saab V4 (Ford) motor for Jim Rutherford, WA
    Saab V4 motor for Paul Westwick, BC
    Help Kevin Hawkinson with Volvo240 insatll/fire up

    Full car suspension for:
    Adam Scrivens VW Golf, Alberta
    Chris Galecki VW Golf, Alberta
    Neal Blair VW Golf, Massivetwoshitz
    Steve Wilson VW Golf, Michigan
    Barrett "Souly Subaru" VW Golf, Oregon
    Dan Chiaradonna Lancia, MO
    Martin Walter, 240SX, Ontario
    Jose Mercado, Corrolla GTS, California
    and ????
    Pending when I get back:
    Finish and deliver Ford Capri to: Bob Olsen in the Midwest
    Finish silver 2,3 Xratty Larry Wong, Seattle
    Finsih Cosworth 4x4 conversion, Larry Wong, Seattle
    Install motor Westwick V4+ suspenders/weld/gearbox

    And pending suspension
    for Maz-dog 323 GTX, Oregon
    Maz-dog fwd 323 in Ohio
    Misterbitchi Gaylant suspenders for Josh Long, WA
    Suspension for Volvo 240, Kevvi, Seattle

    And since I sold those two cars to the guys in Edmonton, and with the 2 guys in Colorado, and exsisting Xrattista Colin McCleery's front stuff hhe got from a well know place in the UK has never been right, I hope I'll be doing suspension for those 5 Xratties.

    Thomas, I push the cars, and just a few other products and have since the late 80s because I believe them to be the cars that will BEST suit the needs of club level, potentially long term, club level competitiors.
    And also since you said you wanted rwd.
    Had you said anything I would include what my business was nearly exclusively from 1984 to 2000 and that's Saab.
    They're cheap, the right size, big enough motor, clear route, and proven.



    >
    >Okay, that's the Swede coming out of me. Straight and to the
    >point. No offence intended, hopefully you're not breathing
    >into a brown paper bag.
    Actually Swedes would look at the ground amnd mumble some stuff and say "Va fan!!! det är likson, det vore, det, ääscj, du vet va fan jag menar. liksom"
    >
    >What do I have against Euro cars ?
    >
    >Well nothing really.
    >
    >I've had a few :
    >
    >1974 Alfa Arachnid (fun little injected 2.0 Hemi)
    >1972 BMW 2002 tii
    >1972 Citroen sm
    >1973 Truimph Stag
    >
    >I loved them all, well some more than others. What was it
    >Lucas said ? "Don't leave home after dark?"
    >
    >The tii was a great car, I loved it !
    >
    >I always wanted an Sunbeam Tiger or a Jensen Interceptor
    >Convertible (yeah yeah... I know it had Mopar power). With
    >todays prices, I wish i had bought several tigers in the
    >1980's !
    >
    >But and there's always a but... modified Jap cars are cool
    >too.
    >
    >But perhaps my current thinking is significantly flawed ?

    Well all those listen were and can be fun ROAD or asphalt cars.....
    >
    >
    >
    But we don't rally on asphalt here.
    Hey I don't know if you have electricty up there in the islands av Wilda Västra Kanada or if you have steam power Inter-net with drip drop connction, but go find some of the links that somebody posted to GruppH video clips from some National rallies in Sweden and watch (*and listen ) to the cars.
    Something like that is do-able and with the right choices, affordable.

    You venturing down into "Fortress America" maybe in concunction with "Oregon Trails"?
    Well? Come on down there coupld be a big buncha BCers here then (or I should say "there" referring to Sleezattle)
    Seeing stuff is sometimes better than talking about it.






    John Vanlandingham
    Seattle, WA. 98168

    janvanvurpa (at) f4 (dot) ca

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat!
    Vive Le Groupe F!


  12. #10
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    Default RE: Whao what a welcome from Vanlandingham !

    "Hey I don't know if you have electricty up there in the islands av Wilda Västra Kanada or if you have steam power Inter-net with drip drop connction"

    Hilarious !

    You've got me in tears.

    If you only apply half as much creativity to your suspenders as you do to your writing, I'm sure you have a winning product !

    And before I forget - seems like I owe the mainlander Morten, and apology for calling his car crap.

    Berkeley 1971... palm trees, free love era, touring in a vw micro bus, rolling "cigarettes", Van Morrison at the Avalon... Damn if I was only born earlier.

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