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Thread: FWD vs. RWD

  1. #21

    Default RE: FWD vs. RWD

    >>Quaife:
    >>
    >>The great FWD equalizer!
    >
    >
    >
    >?



    Having driven FWD most of my life, I can honestly say the biggest single handling modification is an LSD. Torque biasing types such as the Quaife make the car ACCELERATE through the turns, instead of trying to scrub off speed via understeer. You also don't get the "hunting" feeling in FWD's with LSD's, which tends to affect non LSD FF's after the initial turn in. They do take some getting used to, but are well worth the cost for the rewards.

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  3. #22
    into right 2 tightens
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    DEEEtroit, MI, USA.
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    Default RE: FWD vs. RWD

    >Torque
    >biasing types such as the Quaife make the car ACCELERATE
    >through the turns...

    https://www.specialstage.com/forum/cg...ges/search.gif

  4. #23

    Default RE: FWD vs. RWD

    >>Torque
    >>biasing types such as the Quaife make the car ACCELERATE
    >>through the turns...
    >
    >https://www.specialstage.com/forum/cg...ges/search.gif



    Why the search icon? I know of that ZERO traction can be an issue, but having the front wheels lock...

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  6. #24
    into right 2 tightens
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    Default RE: FWD vs. RWD


    ... benefits and effectiveness of different types of diffs on different types of surfaces has been discussed a number of times before, and a couple of times fairly recently (hence the suggestion to use the forum search feature) ... while torque biasing type diffs like the Quaife may work reasonably well for tarmac / asphalt, most people think that a clutch plate type diff is much more effective on gravel surfaces.

    HTH.


    ================================================== ===========================

    Web site : www.SoCalRally.com
    Sponsors : www.VwSpecialties.com www.Parts4VWs.com

    Rally - I don't need no stinkin' epi pen to get my adrenalin rush !!


  7. #25

    Default RE: FWD vs. RWD

    >
    >... benefits and effectiveness of different types of diffs
    >on different types of surfaces has been discussed a number
    >of times before, and a couple of times fairly recently
    >(hence the suggestion to use the forum search feature) ...
    >while torque biasing type diffs like the Quaife may work
    >reasonably well for tarmac / asphalt, most people think that
    >a clutch plate type diff is much more effective on gravel
    >surfaces.
    >
    >HTH.
    >
    >
    >================================================= ============================
    >
    >Web site : www.SoCalRally.com
    >Sponsors : www.VwSpecialties.com www.Parts4VWs.com
    >
    >Rally - I don't need no stinkin' epi pen to get my adrenalin
    >rush !!



    I will agree that a clutch plate diff will work better in the snow, but for packed gravel/decently loose gravel, I like the Quaife units.

  8. #26
    400 flat to crest
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    2007 S.126th ST. Seattle, WA. 98168, USA.
    Posts
    5,777

    Default what sort of fwd vs what sort of rwd

    >>
    >>... benefits and effectiveness of different types of diffs
    >>on different types of surfaces has been discussed a number
    >>of times before, and a couple of times fairly recently
    >>(hence the suggestion to use the forum search feature) ...
    >>while torque biasing type diffs like the Quaife may work
    >>reasonably well for tarmac / asphalt, most people think that
    >>a clutch plate type diff is much more effective on gravel
    >>surfaces.
    >>
    >>HTH.
    >>
    >>
    >>================================================ =============================
    >>
    >>Web site : www.SoCalRally.com
    >>Sponsors : www.VwSpecialties.com www.Parts4VWs.com
    >>
    >>Rally - I don't need no stinkin' epi pen to get my adrenalin
    >>rush !!
    >
    >
    >
    >I will agree that a clutch plate diff will work better in
    >the snow, but for packed gravel/decently loose gravel, I
    >like the Quaife unit.

    BUT!
    Have you ever driven a fwd rally car on loose surfaces with a proper multi plate diff?
    Not just you, I'm curious who has in general.

    Here's the point that might be smart to keep in mind.
    IF you get some Quaiffe diff or a VC diff in the car you buy, well OK that's one thing.

    But if you were to be thinking of actually spending money to get one and the effort to pulll the box and install it, then that's another thing entirely.

    >Then the question becomes WHY would one get this vs that.

    One could ask say Jon Nichols, or closer to BC one could ask either or both Tom Machnik up in Alberta, or Derek Bottles here in Seattle, both had Quaiffe, both said they thought they were OK or fine.

    Until they got real multiplate units.

    Major revalation time; dey done see'd da light!





    John Vanlandingham
    Seattle, WA. 98168

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat


    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle, WA, USA
    www.rallyrace.net/jvab
    www.rallyanarchy.com

    Telephone +1 206 431 9696
    Rememeber the time zone difference

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  9. #27

    Default RE: what sort of fwd vs what sort of rwd


    >
    >BUT!
    >Have you ever driven a fwd rally car on loose surfaces with
    >a proper multi plate diff?
    >Not just you, I'm curious who has in general.
    >
    >Here's the point that might be smart to keep in mind.
    >IF you get some Quaiffe diff or a VC diff in the car you
    >buy, well OK that's one thing.
    >
    >But if you were to be thinking of actually spending money to
    >get one and the effort to pulll the box and install it, then
    >that's another thing entirely.
    >
    >>Then the question becomes WHY would one get this vs that.
    >
    >One could ask say Jon Nichols, or closer to BC one could ask
    >either or both Tom Machnik up in Alberta, or Derek Bottles
    >here in Seattle, both had Quaiffe, both said they thought
    >they were OK or fine.
    >
    >Until they got real multiplate units.
    >
    >Major revalation time; dey done see'd da light!
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >John Vanlandingham
    >Seattle, WA. 98168
    >
    >Vive le Prole-le-ralliat



    Really that much better? I know we could pick up a KAAZ, Spoon, ATS for equal or less cost than a Quaife, but what about plate setup, wear on the discs, etc.? I've seen the diff issues SCC had with their Z33, and I NEVER want to go through that, especially with a FWD transaxle and the amount of work required to get at the diff.

  10. #28
    400 flat to crest
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    2007 S.126th ST. Seattle, WA. 98168, USA.
    Posts
    5,777

    Default RE: what sort of fwd vs what sort of rwd

    >
    >>
    >>BUT!
    >>Have you ever driven a fwd rally car on loose surfaces with
    >>a proper multi plate diff?
    >>Not just you, I'm curious who has in general.
    >>
    >>Here's the point that might be smart to keep in mind.
    >>IF you get some Quaiffe diff or a VC diff in the car you
    >>buy, well OK that's one thing.
    >>
    >>But if you were to be thinking of actually spending money to
    >>get one and the effort to pulll the box and install it, then
    >>that's another thing entirely.
    >>
    >>>Then the question becomes WHY would one get this vs that.
    >>
    >>One could ask say Jon Nichols, or closer to BC one could ask
    >>either or both Tom Machnik up in Alberta, or Derek Bottles
    >>here in Seattle, both had Quaiffe, both said they thought
    >>they were OK or fine.
    >>
    >>Until they got real multiplate units.
    >>
    >>Major revalation time; dey done see'd da light!
    >
    >Really that much better? I know we could pick up a KAAZ,
    >Spoon, ATS for equal or less cost than a Quaife, but what
    >about plate setup, wear on the discs, etc.? I've seen the
    >diff issues SCC had with their Z33, and I NEVER want to go
    >through that, especially with a FWD transaxle and the amount
    >of work required to get at the diff.

    Yes there really is even on gravel no comparison.
    But contact those boys I listed.
    Nobody in the whole rest of the world uses the gear type things if there is any other option.
    The choices are clutch plate with these days agressive ramp anlges
    Viscous Couplings
    (we caqn leave out active, which are merely hydraulic pressure on clutch discs)
    Clutch plate wear is only a factor if there is a LOT of slip, and as they are essentially locked except when there is a need for differentiation, unless you are using a rally tire on one side and a space saver on the other and driving in big circles there normally isn't a lot of differentiation.
    Of course this assumes some oil and maybe also some whale oil or 'friction modifier' from Ford or GM.

    I have no idea what SCC had for problems I whatever a Z33 is, but ask yourself this: Why would some pretty high end manufacturers use the things or supply them as OEM or options in some pretty swank cars including Porsche, BMW, Ford Europe, etc??
    My only contact in person with anybody comnnected with that magazine confirmed my feelings about writers originating out of Southern California had not changed since when i knew more guys down there personally. Oi! is all I can say.
    I still have in a diff the same plates from nearly 20 years ago, but I never drove in circles with a space saver on one side.




    John Vanlandingham
    Seattle, WA. 98168

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat


    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle, WA, USA
    www.rallyrace.net/jvab
    www.rallyanarchy.com

    Telephone +1 206 431 9696
    Rememeber the time zone difference

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  11. #29

    Default RE: what sort of fwd vs what sort of rwd


    >
    >Yes there really is even on gravel no comparison.
    >But contact those boys I listed.
    >Nobody in the whole rest of the world uses the gear type
    >things if there is any other option.
    >The choices are clutch plate with these days agressive ramp
    >anlges
    >Viscous Couplings
    >(we caqn leave out active, which are merely hydraulic
    >pressure on clutch discs)
    >Clutch plate wear is only a factor if there is a LOT of
    >slip, and as they are essentially locked except when there
    >is a need for differentiation, unless you are using a rally
    >tire on one side and a space saver on the other and driving
    >in big circles there normally isn't a lot of
    >differentiation.
    >Of course this assumes some oil and maybe also some whale
    >oil or 'friction modifier' from Ford or GM.
    >
    >I have no idea what SCC had for problems I whatever a Z33
    >is, but ask yourself this: Why would some pretty high end
    >manufacturers use the things or supply them as OEM or
    >options in some pretty swank cars including Porsche, BMW,
    >Ford Europe, etc??
    >My only contact in person with anybody comnnected with that
    >magazine confirmed my feelings about writers originating out
    >of Southern California had not changed since when i knew
    >more guys down there personally. Oi! is all I can say.
    >I still have in a diff the same plates from nearly 20 years
    >ago, but I never drove in circles with a space saver on one
    >side.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >John Vanlandingham
    >Seattle, WA. 98168
    >
    >Vive le Prole-le-ralliat




    Thanks for your input. I have driven Quaife on street/light gravel, but I may try the clutch packs out.

  12. #30
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    Plymouth, MI, USA.
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    Default RE: FWD vs. RWD

    A fun answer for the Holidays:

    In the winter FWD is better than RWD because the defroster doesn't clear the side window well enough to see where the RWD car is sliding to -- with FWD you are always looking out through a clear windshield in the direction you are travelling. (maybe with stage notes this doesn't matter so much?)



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