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Thread: No News is Good News

  1. #21

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    So I ran across this quote from Teddy Roosevelt.

    It is not the critic who counts;
    Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,
    whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly;
    who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming;
    but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause;
    who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly,
    So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
    -T Roosevelt

    Who here has dared greatly? Not too many of us I imagine. Those who have know who they are.
    It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
    William Ralph Inge

    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the decision.

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  3. #22
    into right 2 tightens
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    Lee, got that quote nicely printed and under glass on my desk. Read it everyday.
    Tony
    KC0VSL
    Oskar-the Citation.

    "It ain't what a man Don't know that hurts Him, Near as much as what he Knows that just ain't so."
    -Mark Twain

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorpal rally View Post
    So I ran across this quote from Teddy Roosevelt.

    It is not the critic who counts;
    Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.
    The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,
    whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly;
    who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming;
    but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause;
    who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly,
    So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
    -T Roosevelt

    Who here has dared greatly? Not too many of us I imagine. Those who have know who they are.

    Define great.
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle, WA, USA
    www.rallyrace.net/jvab
    www.rallyanarchy.com

    Telephone +1 206 431 9696
    Rememeber the time zone difference

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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  6. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Vanlandingham View Post
    Define great.
    of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above the normal or average.


    i.e. John Vanlandingham is a great critic of Bill Fogg.
    It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
    William Ralph Inge

    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the decision.

  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorpal rally View Post
    of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above the normal or average.


    i.e. John Vanlandingham is a great critic of Bill Fogg.
    Lee, you know that on all forums the vast majority post almost nothing ever..
    Thus any comments is "more than the normal or average".
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle, WA, USA
    www.rallyrace.net/jvab
    www.rallyanarchy.com

    Telephone +1 206 431 9696
    Rememeber the time zone difference

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  8. #26
    100 oversquare right
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Vanlandingham View Post
    Define great.
    Lee found a Great quote to respond to JVL's criticisms :

    ...

    anywho

    I could do updates on the 100AW website for you (next year? this year? ) or the rally-america website . I can sign a NDA and A non-compete. I've been doing web / computer/ database programming since about 98'

    I think for the very same reasons that social media amazing for generating info / views/ finding and interacting with fans , its horrible for disseminating information . basically because its a Buzz feed, here's what's new and fresh, what's popular, etc, but for something like results people want to be able to dig the up days after, months after, years after, which facebook sucks for.

    LMK , not a problem at all for me to make you something.
    Welcome to Rally Addicts anonymous! Hi I'm Alex Rademacher, and i have a Rally problem..... 23 rallies and counting....

  9. #27
    eating dust taking photos KevinG5Hahn's Avatar
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    Topics like this always make me chuckle.

    Believe me, I feel that the criticism of RA is more than valid at this point.

    RA started down a path that I don't think JB or Doug H loved before they handed over to the Fogg's and its only continued in that direction.

    We now have less information, move events, more classes, more costs (this one is probably inevitable to some extent), more hype, and overall less substance. The organization of data on the series website is poor, incomplete, and over simplified (if I am taking the time to go to the series, I am more than a very casual fan, I am an enthusiast).

    RA was founded to be able to provide better scoring, updates, and communications to the outside world at rallies when the SCCA was puttering around with the idea. RA obviously had to evolve when the SCCA pulled out. Now they have to think about rules, insurance, championship administration, sponsorship and sponsor obligations, as well as services to events. RA took on the new tasks and abandoned their original core tasks.

    Sure, having rally radio is kind of neat, its new, its different, and relative to the challenges of the sport (remote locations and what not) is probably the only viable medium for day of or in event media. But in place of stories, quotes, in event updates, that's not a replacement.

    But the ultimate reality is that we, the fans and enthusiasts, are not the customers of RA, that is the events, and to a lesser extent, the license holders.

    While it may be valid to wonder why the events, that good people give a lot of time, energy, effort, and personal finances, continue to patronize RA for sanction, insurance, and event inclusion; I find it incredibly difficult to criticize that decision, especially as a non-competitor. If entrants want to criticize the involvement of the event with RA, so be it. Those entrants are the customer of the event, they are entitled to hold the event's decision makers accountable for those decisions. But it is for those event decision makers to decide if RA offers appropriate value or not, to pressure RA for changes or to do things differently. If the event organizers then chose to continue to patronize RA, then so be it, they are the ones in a position to make the decision they feel is best for their event.

    This doesn't mean I won't be incredibly critical of how RA is guiding or administering the sport, or filling the role as sanctioning body. It also doesn't mean that I won't criticize RA for the quality, or lack thereof, for what they do and do not provide the fan and enthusiast while they continue to trumpet the horn of being the premier championship. But as for why events go with RA or not, unless you are an entrant of that event, that's not something that anyone but the organizers, their core supporters, and their entrants really should be concerned with; and certainly not something one of the many non-stakeholders should feel empowered to criticize.
    Kevin Hahn
    KevinHahnPhotography.com
    "altitude just means not lifting..."

  10. #28

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    Well said, Kevin. I'm glad you reminded us that Doug Havir's original Rally-America was a scoring/publicity service provider at SCCA Pro Rallies. Doug was a competitor who felt those things were missing. He stepped up and did something about it on his own dime. Maybe that's what we frustrated fans need now - someone to take over the communications aspect of the championship in support of Rally-America, not in opposition. Occasionally individuals with expertise step up on their local events, but it costs too much to operate nationally as Doug Havir learned.
    Lawrence Partington

    TV2GO Toronto

  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by vorpal rally View Post
    of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above the normal or average.


    i.e. John Vanlandingham is a great critic of Bill Fogg.
    Thank you..That's a great compliment..

    Now then Hilliard, you posed a question--obviously intentionally loaded question..Shirely you had something in mind..
    The response has been phenomenal.

    So, what is the point of the question..It don't think it was intended to be rhetorical..

    Oh and in answer: Yeah some people have dared greatly which depending on ones point of view, could be viewed as trying from great things...even if was just hard work.

    So Hilliard, .......got something to add?
    Last edited by John Vanlandingham; 03-31-2016 at 05:27 PM.
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle, WA, USA
    www.rallyrace.net/jvab
    www.rallyanarchy.com

    Telephone +1 206 431 9696
    Rememeber the time zone difference

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  12. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG5Hahn View Post
    T
    This doesn't mean I won't be incredibly critical of how RA is guiding or administering the sport, or filling the role as sanctioning body. It also doesn't mean that I won't criticize RA for the quality, or lack thereof, for what they do and do not provide the fan and enthusiast while they continue to trumpet the horn of being the premier championship. But as for why events go with RA or not, unless you are an entrant of that event, that's not something that anyone but the organizers, their core supporters, and their entrants really should be concerned with; and certainly not something one of the many non-stakeholders should feel empowered to criticize.
    I have had a rule in rally for a long time: don't criticize the Volunteers --which includes local organisers.

    But ...Some poor guy who I have no idea who he is because of the normal online bullshit of phony screen names, lamented only a bit---the normal thing since it is RA normal modes-operandi, the total lack of any pertinent or timing anything... and he recieved a really rude answer from Lee Hilliard who i think is or has been some sort of something connected to the event--thus some reluctance initially to say much
    Here it is once again:

    So did you e-mail myself or our volunteer coordinator about helping out in that regard? Or are you just another whiner bitching how the monkeys aren't entertaining you enough?
    Now He asks a question---but before he can possibly get an answer he says "Or are you just another whiner bitching how the monkeys aren't entertaining you enough? "

    Hilliard maybe knows him from is silly screen name..But fair chance he doesn't..
    Fair chance he doesn't know if the guys an alter kacher who has been volunteering for longer than lee has been around the sport or some guy who has worked local events or really anything...

    When pointed out that was really a rude thing---and considering not knowing if maybe old volunteer or a guy on the cusp of volunteering seems frankly kinda dub to answer a stranger so rudely----but he doesn't apologize to the guy he's accused of --in that regional passive agressive manner--of being a "another whiner" and deflect the question..

    This makes one begin to wonder if some of the haughty assertions of "We NumBAH ONE" that RA has for years screamed is beginning to rub off?


    Whatever, the sport will continue to be ruined by timid conventional consumer authoritarian sorts...just like the country...

    Good to see you still have some enthusiasm for the sport, Kevin.
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle, WA, USA
    www.rallyrace.net/jvab
    www.rallyanarchy.com

    Telephone +1 206 431 9696
    Rememeber the time zone difference

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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