Good Car's for Beginners
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Good Car's for Beginners

  1. #1
    100 K left 2
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4

    Default Good Car's for Beginners

    Hey,

    I'm looking to get started in RallyX and stage rally. My plan is to get a cheep($2k) small car that I can mess around with and RallyX. I would like to be able to upgrade it as money allows, working up through the rallyX classes and then ito stage rally. So what I am looking for is some suggestion of fun small cars that I could look into getting. I know everyone says to buy a prepared car to start but I have not found any that are nearby and cheep. The car also needs to work well-ish on the road because it will be driven to all events that I go to. Here are some cars that I have thought of/read about

    Mk2 VW Golf
    Suzuki Swift (https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/5351842768.html)
    Mini Cooper S

    From what I have read the Golf is a good rally car but I have had some trouble finding the Mk2 versions. I'll keep looking. Does anyone know why people like it? I have read a little about the Suzuki, and what I have read is that in the US its not ideal because it is small for the class that it gets placed in? As for the Mini I think it would be cool to have a rally spec Mini, like what was done to the Classic Mini's in the 60's. I did a little reading the and the general thought was that the frame on the BMW Mini was weak and bends easily. I am still looking at other options. Does anyone have experience with other small European cars like Peugeot's and Citroen's?

    tl:dr
    Looking for a small, cheep car which I rallyX/hoon in, and that I can also potentially prep for stage rally in the future.

    Thanks,

    James

  2. Remove Advertisements
    SpecialStage.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    400 flat to crest
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    2007 S.126th ST. Seattle, WA. 98168, USA.
    Posts
    5,777

    Default

    Since you say "potentially prep in the future" its a safe bet you wont.

    ANY car even a mini-van will do just dandy for rally-cross. Bronco, Blazer, Subie, any Golf..old Nissan SR20s, even Bee Em Dubya work fine.
    Just get something that runs..swap in some good STOCK struts and maybe some kind of tires and just cruise thru..Most guys try way to hard and screw themselves--and their times--up.


    As for a rally car make sure that whatever you get you can eventually afford to change: final drive aka ring and pinion to something with the emphasis on acceleration rather than MPG and low revs on cruise, and if you are anywhere in your brain thinking that one day you might become dissatisfied with stock engine performance and think it might be fun to have a hotter engine, then make sure that you have some alternative to the stock wide spread gearbox ratios.

    Rallycross --or as some call it "Grass-o-cross" and stage rally share virtually nothing in the end..mainly because of the surface and the speeds each is done at.


    And there is NO NEED at all to think only of the old MkII Golf..Nothing wrong with MkIII.
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle, WA, USA
    www.rallyrace.net/jvab
    www.rallyanarchy.com

    Telephone +1 206 431 9696
    Rememeber the time zone difference

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  4. #3
    400 flat to crest
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    2007 S.126th ST. Seattle, WA. 98168, USA.
    Posts
    5,777

    Default

    https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/5354571747.html <-----this would work fine in grass-o-cross and be an good base for future prep.

    https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/5358945544.html <------another. Yeah autotragic but thats an easy swap.

    https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/5319935117.html<<----more money, auto but more funs

    https://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/5332287129.html<----very good car manual, cheap parts, easy mods.

    Those 2 models above are both what I consider--all told---the best beginner RALLY cars.
    Both have big 2300 engines (with the exact same 96 x 80 bore and stroke) with big valves, decent clutches, easy auto to manual driveway swaps, OK brakes and a very good size and with for North American stage roads and speeds. They both have risen in popularity in last 10 years as the obviousness of their effectiveness for doing good without spending obscene money, and their basic reliability has been shown to a new generation (raised believing that they should be passive consumers and need spend no effort more that applying stickers to a car to go rally)
    The results of Ian Topping from Michigan in the one and the guy we call "The New and Improved Dave Clark" out here, both constantly winning the Club 2wd catagory and doing quite well against the so called "National" class are good encouraging examples.
    In the end both those cars use same gearbox, same clutch, same turbo, same diff, same shocks, slight different struts and top mounts, and some are even beginning to use the one cars rack in the other for a nice quick 2.65 turn rack..

    Far easier and far cheaper to build one of those, than ANY FWD car....Or looked at the other way for the money you'd spend on any FWD car you get a much better RALLY car for the same dough.
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle, WA, USA
    www.rallyrace.net/jvab
    www.rallyanarchy.com

    Telephone +1 206 431 9696
    Rememeber the time zone difference

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  5. Remove Advertisements
    SpecialStage.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    100 K left 2
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vanlandingham View Post
    https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/5354571747.html <-----this would work fine in grass-o-cross and be an good base for future prep.

    https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/5358945544.html <------another. Yeah autotragic but thats an easy swap.

    https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/5319935117.html<<----more money, auto but more funs

    https://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/5332287129.html<----very good car manual, cheap parts, easy mods.

    Those 2 models above are both what I consider--all told---the best beginner RALLY cars.
    Both have big 2300 engines (with the exact same 96 x 80 bore and stroke) with big valves, decent clutches, easy auto to manual driveway swaps, OK brakes and a very good size and with for North American stage roads and speeds. They both have risen in popularity in last 10 years as the obviousness of their effectiveness for doing good without spending obscene money, and their basic reliability has been shown to a new generation (raised believing that they should be passive consumers and need spend no effort more that applying stickers to a car to go rally)


    Far easier and far cheaper to build one of those, than ANY FWD car....Or looked at the other way for the money you'd spend on any FWD car you get a much better RALLY car for the same dough.
    I do love the 240 Volvos and I have always wanted one. Its to bad they are all autos. Right now I live in an apt so I cannot do major swaps on my driveway. Right now I am really only teasing the idea of getting a car. I'm just trying to compile a list of what options there are. I might keep looking until a manual 240 comes up, or I might impulse buy that third Volvo.

    What makes building those RWD cars cheaper than a FWD? Part pricing? Lower complexity? What makes them better in rally(besides getting more car for the same money like you said). I read that FWD vs RWD was more based on driver preference.

  7. #5
    400 flat to crest
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    2007 S.126th ST. Seattle, WA. 98168, USA.
    Posts
    5,777

    Default

    Mainly its a question of costs.
    A final drive ring and pinion for any FWD car--and you can only find them for a few such as VW with 020 or 02A box, Focus with MTX75 and various Hondas costs orders of magnitude more than a Dana 30 like comes in 240s up to some point in mid 80s.. One guy out here got a 4.88 ring and pinion from Rockauto for i think it was about $120.. That combined with the bigger motors, especially the turbo Volvo or the Xratty which all came turbo means you can fake it with the stock gearbox ratios--so no cost there...When the gearbox breaks, or you have an autotragique, and you want to upgrade you get a Borg Warner T5 from anywhere from $50 for a core to $1600 for a brand new one--which is less than the Subie guys pay for just the little cheezoid center diff controller thing they allegedly MUST have to not burn up their center diff.

    The second part is the ease of eventual upgrades. Even normal aspirated a guy can get a mertic shit-ton of torque out of a 2300 easier than out of a little 1800 VW..
    And make no mistake it is torque we're trying to up substantially.. In a little motor we make torque by revving the piss outta the poor thing then via gears, reducing revs which multiplies torque in a straight linear fashion.. Problem is if we make a hotter n.a. little motor then peak torque and peak horsepower are moved up and usually close together---so then we need a gearbox with les gaps than a typical MPG box has if we don't want the thing to fall flat between shifts like this (sound effect time)
    1st: whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH (crunch) duh! uh uh uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (crunch) DUH HUH UH uhuuuuuaaaaaaaAAA

    And a close ratio gear set is PILES of dough..
    (Now I only rallied a FWD car and a year before my first stage rally I had a box with 5.83 final drive and the closer of the 2 close ratio sets available for my Saab and it was cooler than shit...Way cool..I loved and still love driving that car..But in 1984 that completely factory rebuilt box INCLUDING a beautiful multi-clutch all steel LSD cost me only $345--and $360 to fly it in...
    Today an equivalent thing would cost 20 times that..

    And as i mentioned a Borg Warner T5 with excellent ratios for a big torquey 2300 turbo would cost new $1600

    In a Volvo there are numerous supplies for Ford T5 bellhousing adaptors and for GM V8 T5 I supply a nice modded bellhousing--for 100 less than the other guys.
    In an Xratty the stock box is OK but when it dies eventually you just get a T-bird turbo bellhousing..and a V8 Ford T5.


    Drive axles...
    When you start beating on drive axles with any FWD car is there a simple easy way to get reliable drive axles into it?
    Who knows. Lotta claims. But its a chronic problem
    With either of these above cars I've made kits to use substantially upgraded back axles...In the Xratty with its Euro Ford 7.5" IRS, I use MkIII Supra diff which is easy to find in 4.3 ratio (all automatics) and in the Volvos we've done Pick up or 4-runner solid axles--the 8" versions. Some of the n.a. guys have shopped carefully following advice from me and found 4-runner axles stock with 4.88 gears--$100..or 4.67
    Big upgrade from Volvo's Dana 30 7.2" ring gear to Toyota's 8" for $100--and then some hacking and welding to get it in, (I make the weld on link brackets to make it easier for guys..)

    Right now though just for playing, anything will do...And if you do decide you want to go play in the woods, you have to get real access to a garage.
    Last edited by John Vanlandingham; 12-15-2015 at 11:10 AM.
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle, WA, USA
    www.rallyrace.net/jvab
    www.rallyanarchy.com

    Telephone +1 206 431 9696
    Rememeber the time zone difference

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  8. #6
    100 K left 2
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Thanks this info is a huge help and has given me a lot to think about.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •