Fastest rally car on earth?
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Thread: Fastest rally car on earth?

  1. #1

    Default Fastest rally car on earth?

    A couple of knowledgeable US rally people suggested that the Vermont Sportscar Subaru that David Higgins used to run the table in Rally America this year may be the fastest rally car in the world. Mr. Ogier's VW has only 1.6 liters and a smaller turbo restrictor and less aero modification. American rules are much more lenient. Is this the real reason Higgins and Drew couldn't run their Rally America car at Wales Rally GB? Is it too fast?
    Lawrence Partington

    TV2GO Toronto

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  3. #2
    into right 2 tightens Mike Hurst's Avatar
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    WRC cars ran the same size restrictor (33) as Higgins in 2015.
    WRC cars also weigh almost 300lbs less than Higgins' RA car.
    An extra 400cc of a Subaru engine makes it faster than a fully developed WRC car, despite carrying the extra weight?

  4. #3

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    The engine size and other modifications done to the car don't fit into any of the classes in Britain, and they weren't granted an exemption. From my understanding that's why they couldn't run the US Spec open class car, regulations here on modifications are much more lenient.
    Good place to get started: Rally University

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    100 K left 2 Hard-y's Avatar
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    I might be wrong but isn't the car ken blocks Runs in rally America wrc spec ?

  7. #5

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    His car is based off of an M-sport WRC fiesta according to his website: http://www.hooniganracing.com/blog/2...-fiesta-r5-ag/

    US Stage rally rules do not prevent FIA spec cars from competing, hence the Ford R1 and R5 Fiestas at NEFR this year.
    Good place to get started: Rally University

  8. #6
    into right 2 tightens mattjohnston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunhamr1 View Post
    His car is based off of an M-sport WRC fiesta according to his website: http://www.hooniganracing.com/blog/2...-fiesta-r5-ag/

    US Stage rally rules do not prevent FIA spec cars from competing, hence the Ford R1 and R5 Fiestas at NEFR this year.
    Fiesta WRC but with the 2.0 old WRC motor.

    The new Higgins car is fast for sure. I think KB's car is still "faster" overall.

  9. #7

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    The SRTUSA isn't homologated, so it couldn't run in the WRC with the parts that it has. There's no WRC category for cars that aren't running the 1.6L turbo specification.

    It could have, however, run in the Wales Rally GB National event I believe. The B13 or B14 rules for UK national rallies are fairly open..

    Class B13: Over 2000cc four wheel drive cars that do not qualify for Classes N4 or B14, and all FIA R4 cars

    Class B14: Current and former World Rally cars with a sequential gearbox, plus current and former S2000, RRC and R5 cars and any derivatives therefrom


    Ken Block's car might be the fastest, but it is aging, and I don't know if the extra 400cc's gives it any advantage over the new VWs with paddle shift and various other improvements. The R5+'s M-Sport has been building might be quite close to what Ken is running actually..

    Come 2017 the WRC's will certainly be the fastest again!

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    Alex
    http://www.rallybrat.com - My Co-Driving Website

    http://britishrallybrat.blogspot.com - My British Rally Blog

  10. #8

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    Hard to really say when there's no good apples-to-apples comparison. You'd have to put the same driver in both cars (if we're talking between the VW Polo, Ken's HFHV and VSC Subaru). Even at that, I'm sure one car is better than the other under various circumstances and stage conditions.

    The reason Subaru went with the GpN @ WRC GB was because they couldn't run their car in the national.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Hurst View Post
    WRC cars ran the same size restrictor (33) as Higgins in 2015.
    WRC cars also weigh almost 300lbs less than Higgins' RA car.
    An extra 400cc of a Subaru engine makes it faster than a fully developed WRC car, despite carrying the extra weight?
    I've never personally dealt with restrictor cars, what would the 400cc difference make? I'd just assume that the choke is the same so max power would be similar, just depends on power delivery and where the torque output is, which can all be adjusted with proper gearing?
    Last edited by Billy Elliot; 12-02-2015 at 06:38 AM.
    Billy Elliot Mann
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  11. #9
    don't cut HiTempguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Elliot View Post
    I've never personally dealt with restrictor cars, what would the 400cc difference make? I'd just assume that the choke is the same so max power would be similar, just depends on power delivery and where the torque output is, which can all be adjusted with proper gearing?
    I've heard arguments made that since a smaller motor can rev higher (since the restrictor limits the overall max air the engine can take) that theoretically, geared properly, a 1.6L "may" be faster than a 2.0L (restrictor on both engines of the same size).

    I think WRC cars are currently more nimble. Technically, Higgins car can run a 34mm restrictor (the driver is too fast, so to speak), which when you are at that pointy end of engine development, I am sure the 1mm makes a LARGE airflow difference. If I was asked to place a bet, I'd put money on the VSC car being faster in the wide-open stuff (with 34mm restrictor). You can really tell the weight difference (IMO) when watching video of WRC cars and NA open class cars in narrow situations. The WRC cars seem a LOT more responsive to steering changes (might be general suspension/geometry/setup too I suppose).

    Antoine went to a WRC evo, even though he was hanging with VSC at the time in the EvoX. So he must have thought there was an advantage?
    Last edited by HiTempguy; 12-02-2015 at 07:53 AM.
    Adam

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  12. #10
    400 flat to crest
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    Fast is terminal or top speed.
    I'll bet a nickle that the fastest rally car as run normally in rally would be John Lane's Group 5 Volvo 240 with the all aluminum 3.0 PRV Dourvin V6 with big honkin T4 turbo.
    nearly 530 ft/lbs torque and in a futile effort to get grip it is gear 3.08 back axle or some crazy thing...Top speed? Who knows but certainly well over 140 mph..He was radared on a SS at 132mm a few years ago when the nearest other thing was barely 118.

    Now quickest car, that's another question. Who knows?
    John Vanlandingham
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