Best gear ratio for my application
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: Best gear ratio for my application

  1. #1

    Default Best gear ratio for my application

    Hi thanks for the interest

    I have a rally car, its a 97 civic, with a d16y8 with 130 hp I have the choice between 2 transmission

    I will use 195\65 r15 tires

    1st : 3.25
    2nd : 1.9
    3rd : 1.25
    4th : .909
    5th: .75

    final 4.25

    the one I am planning with JDM LSD and M-factory 3-5 gear set

    1st : 3.25
    2nd : 1.9
    3rd : 1.65
    4th : 1.25
    5th: 1.00

    Final 4.25

    Thanks a lot

  2. Remove Advertisements
    SpecialStage.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    don't cut
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Elma, Washington.
    Posts
    2,373

    Default

    Honda tends to lack in the torque department so the 2nd set is better and 14 inch tires would be an improvement I think.

  4. #3
    100 oversquare right
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,063

    Default

    2nd set all the way !

    Quite the Gap between 1st and 2nd either way

    and your 2nd to 3rd is Really tight , which would be great for like Mendocino Cow mountain stages ...

    the 2nd gear box, with a Shorter 2nd (about a 2.25) would Rock the farm not sure if that's possible / affordable to find

    your 2nd box :
    http://www.car-videos.net/tools/spee...B1=Recalculate

    with a 2.25 2nd gear

    http://www.car-videos.net/tools/spee...B1=Recalculate
    Last edited by A1337STI; 07-22-2015 at 08:51 AM.
    Welcome to Rally Addicts anonymous! Hi I'm Alex Rademacher, and i have a Rally problem..... 23 rallies and counting....

  5. Remove Advertisements
    SpecialStage.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4

    Default

    IMO, FWIW, etc.

    All the OE Honda LSDs I can think of are either helical or viscous - for rally purposes, not worth spending any $$$ unless you really don't have any other options.
    I know Mugen had a psuedo-OE LSD that I believe was a proper clutch diff, but last I looked you were paying a significant Mugen/"JDM Yo!" tax to get that one in particular.

    M-Factory's clutch diff has been pretty well regarded, and is in the low end of the price range for most FWD Clutch LSDs out there today.

    As far as the gearsets...

    http://www.zealautowerks.com/transcalc.php to compare them (don't forget to plug in something like 7200 to more accurately match your engine...)
    (don't forget that the MFactory D-series 3rd is 1.565 - that's the difference between 76 and 80 MPH)

    As long as you've got room in the budget for a proper LSD and the short gearset, definitely go for the short gearset. The "short" 1st (3.083) only gains you 2mph at the top end - definitely more usable, but for $200...

    One thing to consider, though, is that 5th with the short ratio+4.25 FD still won't be particularly usable for many events in the US - that combo puts you at ~100MPH top of 4th, 125 top of 5th.

  7. #5
    400 flat to crest
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    2007 S.126th ST. Seattle, WA. 98168, USA.
    Posts
    5,777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ISRengine View Post
    Hi thanks for the interest

    I have a rally car, its a 97 civic, with a d16y8 with 130 hp I have the choice between 2 transmission

    I will use 195\65 r15 tires

    1st : 3.25
    2nd : 1.9
    3rd : 1.25
    4th : .909
    5th: .75

    final 4.25

    the one I am planning with JDM LSD and M-factory 3-5 gear set

    1st : 3.25
    2nd : 1.9
    3rd : 1.65
    4th : 1.25
    5th: 1.00

    Final 4.25

    Thanks a lot
    FIRST
    The tire size is rediculous with that engine/box set up.. max you should think of is what would be the old Michelin 14-62 x15 if you had ig brakes that required 15" wheels--(and brakes are the secret..don't tell anybody m'kay?)
    Maybe MAX 185/65 x what-erver or even 175/70 x if you don't have a serious kick ass motor..

    One question though...I am not nearly as smrat or experienced as the other guys who can confidently answer things so definitively..
    See I have to ask you questions.

    What are these 2 boxes?

    Why is 4.25 the only final drive?

    Did you know that typically little 1.6 motors when done right will probably have an overall top gear ratio of somewhere around 5.1 to 5.35?
    In other words XXX gerar x ZZZ final drive = 5.1 to 5.35

    My own gearset/final just as an example is 5.33 final x .92 gear for 5.00 overall

    But really it depends on what you're doing and where you want the car to be quicker

    and you didn't say anything about that so better leave things who can answer without asking you about any details.
    Remember, they know 10 times what I do.
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle, WA, USA
    www.rallyrace.net/jvab
    www.rallyanarchy.com

    Telephone +1 206 431 9696
    Rememeber the time zone difference

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  8. #6

    Default

    Thanks a lot for all those real quick answer!!

    Bopapocalypse is correct the 2nd gear set is :

    1st : 3.25
    2nd : 1.9
    3rd : 1.565 (that is the correct ratio)
    4th : 1.25
    5th: 1.00

    so some answer

    I am using type R brakes so I can't go with 14'' tires, but Mr. Vanlandingham is correct, I would prefer to use 185\65 or 175\70 I have one set of Yoko in 185\60 this is not my best choice small side wall on those large Subaru groove on the road,..., I have 8 195\65 and more to come since I got A friend who use that size on a GC subaru

    The LSD diff and the 3-5 gear set from M-factory are all things I got in stock, include in a bargain I got with the car 2 years ago, I also have in stock all sychro, all bearing for that rebuild

    I will not invest more than that a M-factory LSD is about 700$ cdn and a 1st gear is 225$ so 1000$ for a transmission it's too much fo me

    WHat I have for final drive is 4.25 other OEM trans is like 4.058 or somethings like 3.88, There's always the possibility to have a better final drive combo with M-factory but I have to buy a M-factory LSD of an OEM open diff

    The 2 box are the same P20-B000 from Honda Japan Domestic Market the first ratio listed is the OEM ratio and the 2nd (the one on the top of that post) is the same box but with a M-factory gear set,

    For the moment I do slow rally-X event we don't have fast special, since they are low speed special I want to get a way to have faster re-acceleration
    Last edited by ISRengine; 07-22-2015 at 11:22 AM.

  9. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ISRengine View Post
    Hi thanks for the interest

    I have a rally car, its a 97 civic, with a d16y8 with 130 hp I have the choice between 2 transmission

    I will use 195\65 r15 tires

    1st : 3.25
    2nd : 1.9
    3rd : 1.25
    4th : .909
    5th: .75

    final 4.25

    the one I am planning with JDM LSD and M-factory 3-5 gear set

    1st : 3.25
    2nd : 1.9
    3rd : 1.65
    4th : 1.25
    5th: 1.00

    Final 4.25

    Thanks a lot
    Ditch the D series motor. You can likely sell the whole D series and pick up a B18B (Integra LS) motor/trans for a similar price. You'll get 200cc more displacement (more torque), DOHC (better acess to aftermarket motor parts) and be in the B-series of motors for LOTS more aftermarket support and cross swapping between honda parts (can put B16 pistons, can swap DOHC VTEC heads for LS/VTEC application). A stock LS transmission has these gears: 3.23 1.9 1.27 0.97 0.71 for 1/2/3/4/5 respective and a 4.266 final drive. You can then keep that gearset and swap in a 4.9 final drive and call it a day.

    Or considering an M-Factory or GearX 3/4/5 kit will cost you ~$800-$1000, a 4.9 final drive is $500-$600, look at spending it on an OEM B16 transmission instead.
    The B16 stock gears are:

    1st: 3.230
    2nd: 2.105
    3rd: 1.458
    4th: 1.107
    5th: 0.848
    Final Drive: 4.400

    You can still go one step further with a 4.9 final drive with this application but a stock 4.4 final will be fine. Type R transmissions had a 4.7 final drive available, but they only work with GS-R or Integra Type R final drives (bolt pattern on the differential). OEM differentials were only Type R in the USDM, JDM had B16/GS-R/Type R. As for the Diff, JDM LSD are Helical and so are Quaife. They'll work in rally but aren't as good as a clutch type. There are plenty out there. OS GIKEN are arguably the best, Kaaz/M-Factory have clutch diffs as well. Wavetrack has a sort of helical/clutch hybrid that's better than a pure Torsion but still not as good as a clutch diff. Again, all OEM LSD are Helical but beware of differentials that you get. LOTS of chinese knock offs of good parts. I'd stick to the brands I mentioned.

    As for the M-Factory/GearX kits, those are more designed for motors that rev 8000+rpm, so you're talking about B16/18 DOHC VTEC motors. Personally, I'm running a B16 with a 1.695/1.385/1.140 for 3/4/5 and a stock 4.4 final drive and Kaaz 1.5 diff, running 8300rpm rev limiter. I top out at aound 105mph in [email protected] If I ever change the valvetrain, rod bolts and cam it, I could go to 9300rpm and I would need a 4.9 final drive to adjust for the inrease in revs.



    If you have any more questions, feel free. But in a nutshell, just run the D16 as is and do not modify it. The gearing and low revs are pretty much crap and they have terrible after market support. Get any sort of B-series motor/trans and you'll have a better platform to work with.
    Billy Elliot Mann
    Car #37
    1988 VW GTI - Sold!
    1996 Civic - Build thread!
    1992 Civic - Wife's rally car
    Octane Academy Alumni. They found the best driver by having us snowboard and ride ski bikes!

  10. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ISRengine View Post
    Thanks a lot for all those real quick answer!!

    Bopapocalypse is correct the 2nd gear set is :

    1st : 3.25
    2nd : 1.9
    3rd : 1.565 (that is the correct ratio)
    4th : 1.25
    5th: 1.00

    so some answer

    I am using type R brakes so I can't go with 14'' tires, but Mr. Vanlandingham is correct, I would prefer to use 185\65 or 175\70 I have one set of Yoko in 185\60 this is not my best choice small side wall on those large Subaru groove on the road,..., I have 8 195\65 and more to come since I got A friend who use that size on a GC subaru

    The LSD diff and the 3-5 gear set from M-factory are all things I got in stock, include in a bargain I got with the car 2 years ago, I also have in stock all sychro, all bearing for that rebuild

    I will not invest more than that a M-factory LSD is about 700$ cdn and a 1st gear is 225$ so 1000$ for a transmission it's too much fo me

    WHat I have for final drive is 4.25 other OEM trans is like 4.058 or somethings like 3.88, There's always the possibility to have a better final drive combo with M-factory but I have to buy a M-factory LSD of an OEM open diff

    The 2 box are the same P20-B000 from Honda Japan Domestic Market the first ratio listed is the OEM ratio and the 2nd (the one on the top of that post) is the same box but with a M-factory gear set,

    For the moment I do slow rally-X event we don't have fast special, since they are low speed special I want to get a way to have faster re-acceleration
    Your tires are way too big for the motor that you have. I run 185 tire width max, the 15's that I have are heavy as shit compared to the 14" which will result in less sprung weight and better acceleration. Ditch the Type R brakes, you can make a profit selling those and buying integra brakes if you're on a budget. I use stock integra brakes (same brakes on LS or GS-R) and they work fine and allow you to use 14" wheels. Another benefit running stock integra brakes are 4x100 bolt pattern instead of 5x114 that you have on the Type R. You're going to find A LOT more used wheels in the 4x100 (VW/Mazda/Honda/Acura) in the 14/15" size, plus you'll find a lot more shops keep in stock integra brake pads if you're in a pinch where they'll likely not carry Type R brake pads.

    If you already have the m-factory stuff, then what you have is decent enough if it's already assembled. If they are parts you have in a box, I'd still just look at moving to a B series and selling your m-factory stuff. You can likely sell off the parts and break even and get similar results with a better motor/transmission platform.

    Just my two cents. But if your choice is either/or, then the second trans is easily your best.
    Billy Elliot Mann
    Car #37
    1988 VW GTI - Sold!
    1996 Civic - Build thread!
    1992 Civic - Wife's rally car
    Octane Academy Alumni. They found the best driver by having us snowboard and ride ski bikes!

  11. #9
    100 oversquare right
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,063

    Default

    Billy is awesome!

    do what he says
    Welcome to Rally Addicts anonymous! Hi I'm Alex Rademacher, and i have a Rally problem..... 23 rallies and counting....

  12. #10

    Default

    Billy you have a good option there

    I use 15 tires because they are stronger than 14, and way more available and my about 28 wheels are 15, Sti and Evo use 5x114.3 and fit well so I don't think I will change I got spare disc and brake also 2-3 set so availability is not a problem

    B18b or b20b could be a good option, since i don't have the budjet for a SIR, GSR or type R, I will still need a GOOD SIR LSD transmission to have the proper ratio, 80% of those transmission on the market need a rebuild, budjet Wise for now I preffer to rebuild my D-series box with brand new part I have for free that I will have to invest on an unknow box

    A B18B from Honda spec have what 145hp 126lbft a D16Y8 (vtec) will have 135hp 105lbft and I probably save about 50lbs with the D series and I get a good and fresh transmission on it, B18B Vs D16 is not a large difference


    In a budjet of 1500$ Your option is the best, but I preffer run the car, than save money to get more Hp

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •