VW Golf MK2 2WD Rally Car, Group2, Colorado
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Thread: VW Golf MK2 2WD Rally Car, Group2, Colorado

  1. #1

    Default VW Golf MK2 2WD Rally Car, Group2, Colorado

    **SOLD**

    Thanks all for your comments and views, hope to see the new owner on some stages soon!!


    VW Golf MK2 2WD Rally Car

    I’m focusing on starting a small business, so there are not going to be extra funds for me to rally this car for a little while. Best to get it in the hands of someoe who can use it. I’ve had it for over 10 years. A race car from day one, it originally rallied in Pac Northwest by Scott Hartmann, (His brother told me it ran Olympus Rally as a production class car) and rebuilt as a Group2 buy a guy named Scott Fuller who some of you will remember. Scott Fuller sold it to me to focus on his mk3 kitcars.

    The best part of the car is it’s running a VW Motorsport Gemini Dogbox, which makes for awesome fun and shaves tons of time the twisties. There are lots of other details as well, see below.

    Currently the cylinder head is off the motor and it needs a new one as the old one was so heavily port and polished that it burned through one of the intakes. So I’m offering the car for sale now for someone who wants to do their own head or possibly swap their own engine into the car. Spare head core included. Or if depending on interest I will put the car back together, either way need to get moving on selling it.

    The dogbox has been refreshed by Gemini UK at great expense and has only about 40 miles on it. The whole unit with the VW motorsport Shifter and VWMS plate Diff I’ve considered pulling out of the car to sell back to Europe as they seem to go for lots of money over there. That said, I’d strongly prefer to sell the car complete with all the spares, but will consider breaking it apart.

    I’m thinking the following for prices: $10500 for the car and the very complete spares package listed. $6000 for the gearbox and VWMS shifter as a unit. $4000 for the complete shell minus motor/trans, with 4 Compomotive wheels/tires. $1500 for the spares package. $1000=100/each for the 10 Compomotives. As a final option, for $13,500, I will put it all back together with a new full race port/polish big valve head from Techtonics

    I've hardly run the car in recent years, but it's got a bunch of 1st place's and is really capable in the right hands. It also has a massive amount of R&D in it to make it reliable and something that will finish events. My last dnf was only because the dogbox was out and I was running an open diff and roasted a CV. With the dogbox and plate diff the proper power is always being put down so breaking cv's is never an issue.

    Below is the overview of the build and parts, there are more specifics to how it’s all put together, but, please call 720-900-6395, or email [email protected] with other questions as this is already a lot of info. Pic attached, if interested contact me and I'll send a link for more.



    1985 VW gti group2, Rally America logbooked
    1. Body:
    Total weight 2250lbs
    Bare metal strip and seam welded. extensive cage mounting in 18+ mounting points.
    Rear ultralight carbon kevlar hatch, 1 stock spare.
    Perspex rear windows and rear hatch window.
    Bumper inners drilled out extensively for weight reduction

    2. Suspension:
    FRONT: Bilstein GRP A fully threaded coilovers. 2 races on rebuild. Front springs: Eibach 350#
    VW Motorsport upper strut mounts with spherical bearings. 1 VMS spare strut mount pair.
    REAR: New Bilstein GRP A threaded coilovers. 2 Bilstein GRP A newly Rebuilt spares.
    Rear springs: Eibach 275#
    VW Motorsport rear upper strut mounts with spherical bearings. 1 VWMS spare upper pair.

    3. Front control arms:
    Scott Fuller custom built exact replicas of VW Mk3 kitcar control arms, rebuildable spherical bearings.
    1 spare, 1 stock spare.

    4. Rear Beam:
    New beam with welded gussets and spherical bearings at main pivot points.

    5. Steering:
    Power steering setup. 1 complete spare power steering rack.

    6. Radiator:
    VW Motorsport oversize aluminum rad with twin fans. 1 matching spare VW Motorsport radiator.

    7. Brakes:
    FRONT: Late model/Passat large uprights with Wilwood Dynalight 3 (4piston) calipers. Custom caliper mounts.
    11x1.25 Wilwood rotors with custom rotor hats. 1 Complete spare set mounted on identical uprights with new
    bearings. 3 Sets spare front pads, various compounds.
    REAR: Wilwood Dynalight 2 piston claipers with custom brackets. 1 race on new rear rotors.
    1 Complete set of new Wilwood calipers with brackets. 1 spare set of OEM german rear spindles.
    1 spare set of new rotors. 3 spare sets of new rear pads.

    BRAKE SYSTEM: VW Motorsport fully adjustable pedal box with hydraulic handbrake. Fully braided lines
    with spare brake lines. Dash adjustable pedal box control system. Wilwood rear line proportioning valve incar.

    8. Subframe:
    Extensively seam welded and plated for strength. Custom radiator support.
    Aluminum skid plate tied into both.

    9. Engine:
    Techtonics built and dynoed. Rated @ 152hp. 2liter 16V block with 8v head.
    BOTTOM END: 2liter 16V block with Oettinger knife edged crank. (8lbs removed) Lightened and balanced rods.
    12.5 pistons. Custom Techtonics windage tray and flapper built into the pan.
    TOP END: 2 races on Techtonics rebuilt head. Head is from GTI engineering UK, extensively flow benched.
    Largest valves possible installed. Triple Shrick valve springs. Adjustable cam gear. SEAT valve cover.
    Water/oil cooler. Full set of spare radiator hoses. Injectors flow tested. Runs a BMW fuel metering head.
    Spare filters, injectors, fuel metering head. Electronic rev limiter.

    MOUNTS: All VW Motorsport MK3 kitcar engine and trans mounts. That’s P side, D side and rear mounts.

    10. Transmission:
    DOGBOX- VW Motorsport Gemini Trans. (refreshed with Gemini UK, less than 25 stage miles on it)
    5 speed H pattern with 4:64 final drive. VW Motorsport aluminum shift linkage tower. VW Motorsport cable
    shift system with short-shift and VW Motorsport ball mount end shift selector.
    VW Motorsport plate type differential installed in gearbox. (allows for proper power delivery without axle shear)

    11. Clutch:
    New Kennedy 6 puck installed with dogbox. 228mm lightened flywheel.

    12. Drive shaft: 100mm Quattro CV’s safety wired. New on both sides. 1 new spare, 1 used spare

    13. Fuel:
    High flow Bosch motorsport pump and filter in alloy box. FuelSafe 12 gallon fuel cel with areoquip
    lines and remote side fill hoses. New foam/gaskets and FIA FuelSafe PROCELL in fall of 2013.

    14. Wiring:
    Professionally wired, with military switches and mechanical Autometer gauges. Spare oil and water guages.
    Dash mounted fuses and relays. Recent Optima (8/2013) battery in custom aluminum battery box.

    15. Seats:
    Recaro SPG’s

    16. Belts:
    Sabelts*. Expired dec. 2014

    17. Fire:
    a. Lifeline electrical firesystem with 2 handheld mechanicals.
    b. 1 halon at codriver position
    c. 1 b,c in rear hatch

    18. Trip:
    Terratrip 303 with spare probe

    19. Headset:
    Peltor, with one Peltor practice headset. (white)

    20. Roof Vents:
    2 Prodrive from 1991 Subaru WRC.

    21. Misc. Spares:
    Many, many spare engine, and electrical parts, distributors, gaskets, etc. and suspension parts.

    22. Wheels:
    10 Compomotive TH 6x15 gravel wheels. 4 Compomotive TH2’s 6x15’s. Special wide offset to clear Wilwoods
    One very fresh set Michelin 14/62-15 rally tires. 8-10 spare Michelin practice tires included.--14 wheels total.

    23. Lighting:
    Hood mounted light pod with 4 IPF Rally lights. 2 PIAA rally lights in grill. =6 rally lights total capacity.
    Full mil spec wiring and relay system for the lighting.
    Last edited by mbl408; 06-12-2016 at 08:50 PM.

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  3. #2
    400 flat to crest
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    2007 S.126th ST. Seattle, WA. 98168, USA.
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    Nice car and an excellent spec..Had many good battles with the hartmanns for years...It has to be pretty damn good to beat a car like a 1969 Saab 96. And they did on occasions--when i was rusty.

    Can i make a suggestion having seen the car for years and seeing what's in the ad?
    those springs both front and rear are stiffer than most guys running cars weighing 700-100 lbs more than this one..
    It would work much better with drastically lighter springs...max MAYBE for a very fast driver 250 front and maybe MAX 175 rear...

    other than that I say get a head on it of some sort..make it run, most people now are not skilled at car work.
    Running will help.
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle, WA, USA
    www.rallyrace.net/jvab
    www.rallyanarchy.com

    Telephone +1 206 431 9696
    Rememeber the time zone difference

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  4. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vanlandingham View Post
    Nice car and an excellent spec..Had many good battles with the hartmanns for years...It has to be pretty damn good to beat a car like a 1969 Saab 96. And they did on occasions--when i was rusty.
    Ha, nice! and thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vanlandingham View Post
    Can i make a suggestion having seen the car for years and seeing what's in the ad?
    those springs both front and rear are stiffer than most guys running cars weighing 700-100 lbs more than this one..
    It would work much better with drastically lighter springs...max MAYBE for a very fast driver 250 front and maybe MAX 175 rear...
    Thanks John, I agree that the springs are on the stiff side. But for me and my driving I've always had a really good feeling from the car and the current setup, no matter what the conditions. Scott Fuller had luck with the setup too, mentioning that this car in it's configuration was as quick as his Mk3 kitcars in tighter stages, only loosing out on top end speed. So point taken for the next owner, but as it is, I think current rates are a solid starting point.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vanlandingham View Post
    other than that I say get a head on it of some sort..make it run, most people now are not skilled at car work.
    Running will help.
    Yes, I hear you, running car much easier to sell. I'll get cracking on it
    Matt

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  6. #4
    400 flat to crest
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    2007 S.126th ST. Seattle, WA. 98168, USA.
    Posts
    5,777

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbl408 View Post
    Ha, nice! and thanks!



    Thanks John, I agree that the springs are on the stiff side. But for me and my driving I've always had a really good feeling from the car and the current setup, no matter what the conditions. Scott Fuller had luck with the setup too, mentioning that this car in it's configuration was as quick as his Mk3 kitcars in tighter stages, only loosing out on top end speed. So point taken for the next owner, but as it is, I think current rates are a solid starting point.



    Yes, I hear you, running car much easier to sell. I'll get cracking on it
    Matt

    OK I get what you're saying---but back in the day accurate info was very difficult to get and I can safely say virtually EVERYBODY was way over sprung...

    The main point is this...often we say "Well I like it like this and the guy I talked to said he liked it like this"
    The Bilsteins on there are no doubt valve good...what I'm saying is "there's nothing saying that you---or the next owner---wouldn't like "that" better.

    There's a nice story (and a free bump for the ad!) and Scott fuller is in it a little... back in like '91 or so there was a class invented which was confused in inception--was it a low cost class, or a limited mod class, whatever it was it was max 1500cc--bizarrely not the common over the entire world 1600.
    2 crazy Noobs came to me to build them motors for this class--both were watercool Vw pervs so it was Rare-bits for both...
    Valves were to be 'stock', overbore max 1mm, cam free.....stock fuel system or max a 2 bbl "DG or DF type Weber", ..No mention of any restrictions on the box.

    So I dug up 2 1974 first year only short stroke 1500 wabbit engines...there was a later one which was a de-bore 1600...Nope with these limitations I wanted something that would rev and part of the plan was for 4.64 , so I happened to be talking to Fuller and he said Oh hell i have an extra so I snagged it for I dunno $160...
    Thart was to be a key part of how the car goes...Your car goes like stink, I know (the Hartmans did every eveent and in those years we'd have 6-8 events in a year---me being me was more just playing at car stuff so after the first year I rallyed and did I think 8 events including 1986 Olympus WRC (DNF just past 1/2 way thru---but I got to spectate!!!) after that I concentrated on business and helping noobs and did 2 or 3 events only, so I was always rusty compared to both Hartmans---so if it was a 2 day deal they'd beat me the first day cause i'd always take about 35 minutes to 'wake up' and "remember where 3rd gear is".
    then I'd stomp 'em the second day..Even pulling in 2 minute gaps when it was dusty.....Often catching them with 1 minute gap...
    Like i said, I know its a good car...0

    Anyway the short gearing was central to making a n.a. car QUICK.. and the close ratio is sooo nice for keeping it "on the boil" especially on higher load scenarios like up hills or high speeds..

    So comes time to talk to my customer jim about getting this 4.64 into the box and it was after a rally and we'ze were all beered up (he was brewmaster at Red Hook brewery and ALWAYS had a small keg cold and ready the instant the last time card was handed in...) and I'm going "Doooooood i gotcha this soooooper bitchin critical part for the project and fuller let it go for peanuts only FIVE DOLLAH! make ya Holah!" well his wife was making odd noises and finally kinda whined "Dammit john we're only doing this for fun, we doan need no stinkin 4.64"

    It hit me in a flash the error in that thinking...
    "I didn't know having a well functioning car that accelerates good somehow detracted from the fun."

    As for the head...I did a re-fresh on our most recent VW maniac the ever funand crazy Tom Buress...and I just happen to have done business with the guy who prior to VWs current factory involvement, did all of VWs head and cam and mapping development..
    The VW 16v is pretty good...whats good is good and whats bad can't do anything about..Thus its not a head to spend millions on.Clean bowls/valve pockets, careful on seat pressure and no coil bind and call it good...

    Just saying---and extended free bump...


    HEY SOMEBODY BUY THIS CAR..

    Goddam Hartman oughtter buy it back and we can have some rematches "Vingt cing ans plus tard!" (should that have been in German?)
    John Vanlandingham
    Sleezattle, WA, USA
    www.rallyrace.net/jvab
    www.rallyanarchy.com

    Telephone +1 206 431 9696
    Rememeber the time zone difference

    Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

  7. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vanlandingham View Post
    OK I get what you're saying---but back in the day accurate info was very difficult to get and I can safely say virtually EVERYBODY was way over sprung...

    The main point is this...often we say "Well I like it like this and the guy I talked to said he liked it like this"
    The Bilsteins on there are no doubt valve good...what I'm saying is "there's nothing saying that you---or the next owner---wouldn't like "that" better.
    Springs are an easy swap, I'd be willing to try them next rally, oh wait, I'm selling it..... damn.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vanlandingham View Post
    There's a nice story (and a free bump for the ad!) and Scott fuller is in it a little... back in like '91 or so there was a class invented which was confused in inception--was it a low cost class, or a limited mod class, whatever it was it was max 1500cc--bizarrely not the common over the entire world 1600.
    2 crazy Noobs came to me to build them motors for this class--both were watercool Vw pervs so it was Rare-bits for both...
    Valves were to be 'stock', overbore max 1mm, cam free.....stock fuel system or max a 2 bbl "DG or DF type Weber", ..No mention of any restrictions on the box.

    So I dug up 2 1974 first year only short stroke 1500 wabbit engines...there was a later one which was a de-bore 1600...Nope with these limitations I wanted something that would rev and part of the plan was for 4.64 , so I happened to be talking to Fuller and he said Oh hell i have an extra so I snagged it for I dunno $160...
    Thart was to be a key part of how the car goes...Your car goes like stink, I know (the Hartmans did every eveent and in those years we'd have 6-8 events in a year---me being me was more just playing at car stuff so after the first year I rallyed and did I think 8 events including 1986 Olympus WRC (DNF just past 1/2 way thru---but I got to spectate!!!) after that I concentrated on business and helping noobs and did 2 or 3 events only, so I was always rusty compared to both Hartmans---so if it was a 2 day deal they'd beat me the first day cause i'd always take about 35 minutes to 'wake up' and "remember where 3rd gear is".
    then I'd stomp 'em the second day..Even pulling in 2 minute gaps when it was dusty.....Often catching them with 1 minute gap...
    Like i said, I know its a good car...0
    Wow, you are talking some rare VW parts. Fuller was always a generous guy with his parts. Sounds like fun building those cars up.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vanlandingham View Post
    Anyway the short gearing was central to making a n.a. car QUICK.. and the close ratio is sooo nice for keeping it "on the boil" especially on higher load scenarios like up hills or high speeds..
    Well said. That's how my car feels, always on the boil...

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vanlandingham View Post
    So comes time to talk to my customer jim about getting this 4.64 into the box and it was after a rally and we'ze were all beered up (he was brewmaster at Red Hook brewery and ALWAYS had a small keg cold and ready the instant the last time card was handed in...) and I'm going "Doooooood i gotcha this soooooper bitchin critical part for the project and fuller let it go for peanuts only FIVE DOLLAH! make ya Holah!" well his wife was making odd noises and finally kinda whined "Dammit john we're only doing this for fun, we doan need no stinkin 4.64"

    It hit me in a flash the error in that thinking...
    "I didn't know having a well functioning car that accelerates good somehow detracted from the fun."
    Well I guess that would make it too easy for some folks

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vanlandingham View Post
    As for the head...I did a re-fresh on our most recent VW maniac the ever funand crazy Tom Buress...and I just happen to have done business with the guy who prior to VWs current factory involvement, did all of VWs head and cam and mapping development..
    The VW 16v is pretty good...whats good is good and whats bad can't do anything about..Thus its not a head to spend millions on.Clean bowls/valve pockets, careful on seat pressure and no coil bind and call it good...
    Yes, the 8V is what it is, if anyone knows how to close the gap it's Collin over at Techtonics, he has some good ideas for the next iteration head, without breaking the bank

    Quote Originally Posted by John Vanlandingham View Post
    Just saying---and extended free bump...


    HEY SOMEBODY BUY THIS CAR..

    Goddam Hartman oughtter buy it back and we can have some rematches "Vingt cing ans plus tard!" (should that have been in German?)
    He should, and then he could go after his brother Scott with the beautifully prepared golf he's got! I'm guessing you know about that car as well.

  8. #6

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    Still for sale, here's a link to some photos. Car is exactly as pictured with the exception of the Compomotive TH-3's that have been sold.
    http://s818.photobucket.com/user/est...20GTI%20Group2

  9. #7
    100 K left 2
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    Illinois
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    Is the head put back on the car? If it is is it ready does it need anything else to be race ready? If it is not same question minus the head install.

  10. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwhitebread View Post
    Is the head put back on the car? If it is is it ready does it need anything else to be race ready? If it is not same question minus the head install.
    Hi, head is still off the car, but if someone is interested and puts down a deposit I will get the race head done at Techtonics ASAP and install on the car for total price of 9500 for the car. That's reduced from above because I sold 4 of the compomotives, (10 come with car) and because I would like to get the car moving and free up some space.

    Aside from the head, the only thing it needs to be race ready is a fresh set of belts as the dates expired on the ones in the car.

  11. #9

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    What is the status on this vehicle? Has it been sold? Possibly interested in four of the wheels if you are willing to separate 4 from the sale.

  12. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by AWD_fun View Post
    What is the status on this vehicle? Has it been sold? Possibly interested in four of the wheels if you are willing to separate 4 from the sale.
    Still for sale, working on getting the head done now.

    Sold my extra sets of Compo's, for now I'd prefer to keep the remaining 10 of them as a complete set for anyone possibly wanting the whole car. Thanks.

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