Drones - technology warp

[Lancia037Rally]

They are all the rage. Cheap and easy to fly. But some people screwing it up giving them bad name by crashing onto White House lawn and such. FAA trying to create legislation and get $$$ from commercial use.

So what say the rally sanctioning bodies regarding use? SCCA has outlawed them from their events. Knee-jerk.

For stagerally, I see them as a safer method to capture the action than standing near stage w/ any camera. Could organizers even designate 'drone-only' spectator areas with ample flying space for non-media (different characteristics for good location from a regular spectator area- less trees, no powerlines, good landing area) in the future?

Do we grasp the new technology to our advantage or its it going to be banned for a reason I cannot think of?

Are there any restrictions already? What has been droner's experiences thus far? Thoughts?

[aropedo]

Looks like they would do well on stage rally roads:

[jimmy]

Um, Bling and company have been using them for years - Easier Said Than Done.

FAA has jurisdiction (and I am not current on what their regs are).

press on,

[Morison]

Drone manufacturers are making the units so they fly themselves, which is fine - until it isn't, which is surprisingly often. When things do go wrong, and they will, they become surprisingly dangerous, something that is easily underestimated.

Transportation Canada is way ahead of the FAA in terms setting the rules around drone use and flight permits, with some common sense exemptions for both recreational and commercial use. In the US, commercial use of drones is generally not allowed, with only recent allowances for a few film industry users.

The vast majority of drone use is happening outside of the regulations (illegally), and likely un-insured.

ASN Canada FIA has also laid down a blanket ban on drones at events. The primary reason is that there is absolutely no coverage for aviation activities in the blanket policy that covers ASN sanctioned events. (and yes, drones are aircraft and require aircraft coverage.) I'd describe their approach as knee jerk, and under informed, as well.

The production companies have been using drones for CRC shows for several years. The shots are great, and add a different perspective, but also wear thin quickly and - like any new trick - tend to get over-used (like slo-mo.) There is also a lot of really bad drone work being produced and shared (bad rolling shutter, poor or no gimbals, erratic flight behaviour) that has lowered the bar for what is acceptable.

(FWIW: I publish a model aviation magazine for a living and the legalities of drones is a current hot topic)

[Lancia037Rally]

Its a hot topic lots of places, that is why I think its a good discussion here. For some motorsports (open cockpits especially), yeah, I wouldn't want a drone flying about. We did use one at a SCCA rallyX last year for filming a TV show but unsure when their ban began. Seemed harmless enough at a rallyx.

Commercial use is pretty vague. The guy I purchased mine from has several books published of photos taken from drones. Very cool images, how often do you see the Statue of Liberty from directly above? Guys who filmed Rally WV using a drone use theirs for real estate pics. How do you distinguish them for a hobbiest while they are flying them?

Insurance for a drone? What damages have they caused thus far when flown w/ common sense in unrestricted space (not near airports)? Next I will need kite insurance too.

Regarding bad drone work, everyone has to start somewhere and within their budget. There is no shame in sharing it.

[Anders Green]

So what say the rally sanctioning bodies regarding use?

Insurance seems available readily and cheaply: http://www.modelaircraft.org/ It appears to be about $60 a year.

If a person was registered media and wanted to fly a drone and was insured, I'd have no problem with that.

An unknown person launching one from a public spectator area? I would not be a fan of that at all.

Anders

[Morison]

Commercial use is pretty vague.

Not for Transport Canada, not for FAA.
It's just that people don't like, or accept, the broad definition of 'any compensation' as being commercial.
Both taking pictures for use in books and real-estate photography are clearly commerical uses, I can't fathom how they wouldn't be seen that way. We've seen interpretations (in the US at least, include posting the videos on YouTube, even without monetization active on the video... the commercial benifit being seen as promotion of the 'service.')

How do you distinguish them for a hobbiest while they are flying them?

Combined with the fact that generally there is no budget for enforcement. However, all it takes is a complaint and you'll have to prove you AREN'T operating commercially. That you can't easily distinguish commercial vs. recreational is EXACTLY why we see the total ban from ASN and, likely, the SCCA.

Insurance for a drone? What damages have they caused thus far when flown w/ common sense in unrestricted space (not near airports)?

We've seen a relatively serious building fire in BC and the potential risk of personal injury when flying around people can be significant with any drone, moreso with the larger ones. A few years ago at Rocky, we had a drone run out of battery and essentially crash on the stage in front of a rally car at speed. The driver took evasive action, but had it happened elsewhere, it could have ended up damaging the car. (hitting a tree instead of the drone...) Insurance is about the un-expected and low probability.

[Morison]

Insurance seems available readily and cheaply: http://www.modelaircraft.org/ It appears to be about $60 a year.

Again, I know this cold.
AMA is recreational insurance only, and is secondary insurance, so only pays once your primary coverage has been exhausted.

If a person was registered media and wanted to fly a drone and was insured, I'd have no problem with that.

If you allow it to happen, then the event is taking on liability. Does your insurance cover aviation activities? (Most policies exclude it)

An unknown person launching one from a public spectator area? I'm would not be a fan of that at all.

Tough to control, and if you don't allow it you're not taking on the liability risk.

But, get direction from real lawyers or insurance adjusters/underwriters.

[Anders Green]

Hahaha, no, I think I'll stick to getting it from Canadians on the internet.

[mattjohnston]

Insurance seems available readily and cheaply: http://www.modelaircraft.org/ It appears to be about $60 a year.

For a hobbyist when flying at the local flying field, yea. Not for commercial use though. You can "get insurance" but it won't pay out, and is pretty wishy washy. There have been claims (lots of face-slicings, a couple full size rammings and a few drop on heads)

Currently, in the USA. Any unmanned aircraft for commercial use (like media at a rally) is not permitted. Period. It's a 10k fine, but it is too out of control for them to issue for most instances.

Well, unless you have a section 333 exemption, and a COA waiver. There are currently about 50 exemptions issued. Typically you need to petition as a pilot with an airman certificate, have a flight manual, documentation, training process and maintenance schedule - which is fine by me. But they sure take their time reviewing.

Canada is better. U.K is better. France is better. Australia is worse (similar to FAA section 333 but instrumented pilot rating and mandatory spotter).