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CoDrivers - Emergency Procedures / Tips

11K views 30 replies 19 participants last post by  RichardM 
#1 ·
As emphasized in the novice meetings and by everyone who rallys, it's a matter of when you crash. When for us was this weekend, and it was a good one. Once it happened I realized, too late of course, that I wasn't quite prepared. I knew what to do by the letter, but actually doing it and the situations around it are very different things.

So to the fellow codrivers out there, and anyone else too, here's the situation I found myself in:

We tagged a tree on a R4 Vlg > n.c. What this meant to me was that we were very likely to have a meeting with the guy behind us in 1 minute or less. My driver handed me the triangle in reach, my good sign he was OK and thinking clearly. I jumped out of the car and..

Well, it was night, and we were down about an 8 foot ditch, took me a bit of scrambling just to get up the ditch. Then I realized I'm in roughly complete darkness - I couldn't see a damn thing. I knew we were well into the tightens part of a very, very long right. I needed to get that triangle out there, but I also knew it had probably been 30 seconds or more already by the time I got up to the road. I hadn't had time to even look for my OK page yet, so here I am on the bad side of a n.c., my driver still in the car, and I can't see the road back.

Fortunately for us the volunteer coordinator was marshaling with another who had a light maybe .1 mile back from where we crashed. With his light and vest, we were able to run back and get the first triangle set right as the next car came (and we dove off into the woods down the ditch because they didn't slow a bit).

Then I had to run back to the car - to find out the rear end was destroyed - and try to get to the triangle box, again in the dark - and again without the marshal's help I'd have been in a mess.

I've run over the situation in my head a lot since it happened and really I can't quite see how to make this better. For the guys who have been through this, what would you do? Do most codrivers have a light? What do you do if you can't get to your triangles due to damage to the car?
 
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#2 ·
Can't speak for others but, always wore a pen on a lanyard around my neck and attached to the lanyard were and still are 2 small lights, one red and one white. Still have the pen on a lanyard as well as the two small lights and they do come in handy at night. Even getting out of the car when in the lineup for a stage the lights help in not stepping out of the car in the dark and down an embankment. The lights would have helped find the OK quickly, some people keep a laminated OK sign velcroed to the roof of the car above the roll cage so you always know where it is as that is as important as the triangle. Without the OK the next car should have stopped to make sure you were OK before continuing.

Wondering why the driver handed you the triangle; most times the triangle is on the co-drivers side of the car within reach while strapped in. Hope your next adventure ends better.
 
#3 ·
It was between the driver's seat and the trans tunnel, so I can reach it and so can he. He was just quicker on the draw and gave it to me while I was getting out of my harness.

Lanyard lights aren't a bad idea - wasn't sure how I'd actually carry a light. Most of the common options wouldn't be very reliable. I could certainly put a light in my pocket, but the chances of it falling out would be pretty high, the suit pockets aren't great in that respect. I wonder if I should have some velcro sewn on them to hold them closed.
 
#10 ·
It was between the driver's seat and the trans tunnel, so I can reach it and so can he. He was just quicker on the draw and gave it to me while I was getting out of my harness.

Lanyard lights aren't a bad idea - wasn't sure how I'd actually carry a light. Most of the common options wouldn't be very reliable. I could certainly put a light in my pocket, but the chances of it falling out would be pretty high, the suit pockets aren't great in that respect. I wonder if I should have some velcro sewn on them to hold them closed.
You did good:cool: Sorry about the car.
Since we dont like to practice crashes, I need to go over scenarios in my head many times before hand hoping to remember all the right actions in the moment. (I am a visual learner) We had all three triangles in the car. One beside the co-driver and the others velcro-wrapped each side to the cage behind the seats. If you are staying for awhile the driver can help.:rolleyes: Light pen on a lanyard is great idea if you dont mind it slapping your face in a roll over. (Probably doesnt matter at that point since your notes, pen and ... will all be vying for attention. I like a small LED (2"-3") penlight in my pocket or in the pouch on the co-driver door. (Velcro flap) The Laminated OK/Red Cross sign Velcro d to the roof works well. Have a system and put everything back in the same place after changing your tire in the dark (now your in a bigger hurry) so its there for the next excursion.
 
#4 ·
I usually have a head lamp around my neck when running at night. Primarily in case something happens to the map light, but also in case we end up stopped in the middle of no where. Bonus is it's hands free and if things are really messed up you can take of your helmet and use it as intended. (I recommend my driver have one for night stages as well)
 
#5 ·
OK velcro'd to the roof, accessible by both. Doesn't matter which way you've landed, it's within reach and secure. I made a run of 11x17 signs and laminated them. Folded it in half, and put velcro on it and the roof.

If there's a triangle in the between the driver and the trans tunnel, attach another one in front of your seat. You never know what's going to happen there and trans tunnels get hot. I don't want to have to worry about burning my hands while reaching for it. Or burning my hands while not worrying about burning them inadvertently.

As for lights, while I don't like having a rope of any kind tied around my neck in a car at speed, I've seen enough guys do the lanyard bit. Some suit companies can customize a pocket about mid-shin (should be arms reach when you're sitting) length to hold 2-3 pencils. I take the stitching out of position 2 & 3 to make a bigger opening. You could put a flashlight with a pen clip on it there.

If the next car past saw you, but no OK sign, they should have stopped.

Mostly, just don't panic. Take your time and get to the top. Keep an ear out for the next car and when it's close, listen carefully for it. The marshal would let finish know you're off if a car or two goes by without reporting you as visible.

EDIT: Agree with Keith, do have a headlamp accessible. Those are great for night stages.
 
#6 ·
I keep a small Maglite in my bag, which is at my feet. If it's a car you will be riding in often, ask the driver (or do it yourself) to install some kind of small pouch on the door where you can keep things like pens, batteries, and a small flashlight.

I think I am going to start bringing a headlamp with me as well.

Your story is a little unclear: you were on the inside of the > n.c.? It was n.c. because of the huge ditch on the inside that you fell into? Was the car blocking the road at all?

I've definitely stood in the woods or on a bank holding a triangle and giving a thumbs up for quite a few minutes of cars behind me... Stand on the same side of the road as your car is off, as far off the road as you can still be visible, and try to slow competitors a bit while still signaling "OK" even if you don't have your sign.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Your story is a little unclear: you were on the inside of the > n.c.? It was n.c. because of the huge ditch on the inside that you fell into? Was the car blocking the road at all?

I've definitely stood in the woods or on a bank holding a triangle and giving a thumbs up for quite a few minutes of cars behind me... Stand on the same side of the road as your car as you would set up a triangle and try to slow competitors a bit while still signaling "OK" even if you don't have your sign.
We went off the outside of the tightens no cut, there was a ditch outside and large immovable objects inside. The ditch wasn't huge, the car was definitely visible, but the most pending danger would just be someone else taking it wide right into us. Someone else had apparently done it before us about 50 feet away, but not as severely.

Problem with standing there is there was no way to stand in a safe spot behind trees and be visible. The trees were clear down the ditch, and were very thick/messy once you got down there. So it was either stand on the outside of a very long/fast corner on the actual road, or be down in the trees where we'd be safe but not visible at all. The inside of the corner would've been reasonably safe, but obviously of no use in this situation since we were outside.

All of the suggestions about pockets to store things and such make sense. The headlamp and lanyard as you said (in my mind) were just kind of a "Hm I probably shouldn't have this while strapped in with a HANS and helmet". Maybe attaching a light to the triangle itself even is not a bad idea, along with the pouch to store a small hand lamp. I'd bet I can ziptie a small LED light to a triangle.

This is how we'd have looked from the road, but you'd be well into the corner by the time you could see it
 
#8 ·
I would have gone as far up the road as necessary with the first triangle (to get myself safe) and trusted that the driver was attempting to extract himself safely and get the 2nd triangle set up closer to the car. But it's something you *should* discuss with every driver before every event.
 
#9 ·
I have a small light on my pen around my neck. At night I have one in my pocket. You might want one in a bag on your door or attached to the cage (anyplace that you know where it is - this is particularly important when your car is not on its wheels).

While not by the rules - standing in the road (safely) and waving cars by (with a thumbs up) has always been acceptable. This does point to having triangles in multiple places (and knowing where they are).

Above all - try to remain calm!

press on,
 
#12 ·
My personal "ideal" solution for this ...

Have a small pocket sewn onto the calf of your suit and have it stitched vertically such that there are a couple of pen/pencil sized slots in it and one larger slot that will fit a small mag light. That way there is always a pen/pencil and a small flashlight on you at all times, can be easily reached even when tightly strapped into the car, and they are not going to go anywhere. You don't want a pocket on your thigh or chest because it can get very uncomfortable, and/or hard to get to when smashed up against the seat or under the belts. Not to mention dangerous.

That said, my car also has the stock door cards still in place, so I put an elastic band across the top of the storage pocket on the passenger's side to trap pens/pencils/paper, small flashlights under so you are not fishing around for them.

And I'll second having a laminated OK/Red Cross sign that is velcro'd to the roof within easy reach of both of you. Laminated being a key word here - it is not fun to have a floppy, wet, disintegrating sign when it is pouring down rain. One additional benefit to this - you can train yourself to NEVER take the route book/notes out of the car when stopping on stage. It is way too easy to accidentally leave them behind, on the roof, drop them in the mud, get them soaking wet, etc. Should you get going again, that can really suck.
 
#17 ·
I have a co-driver bag like this, which gets secured to the door bars: http://www.sabelt.com/en/racing/Products/Sportswear/Borse/Pages/04BS-150.aspx

I keep a light and a back cover from an old route book in it (as well as my time card and route book when I'm on stage).

If the car ends up on its side, or roof, I imagine it would work like that. In a real emergency, I'd just dive head first out the door or window. But with the car sitting flat on its wheels, I made the mistake of dragging myself across butt first, then had no room to swing my legs around. It was clumsy and awkward.

Always worth watching is the classic video in this thread: http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?37689
Temporarily stuck in car by HANS
"Mother****er I hate this ****ing sport!"

I get the giggles every time I watch that. But it could have been much more serious.
When Mark and I rolled at Lanark in 2011, my HANS got caught on the roll cage briefly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWIySaC8aj0#t=330

It was only for about 5 seconds, but while I was stuck and realized that we were completely blocking a narrow road around a blind corner, it felt WAY longer.
 
#13 ·
Thanks guys, this is indeed all good advice that I wanted to see. If Anders is listening, these kind of veteran tips are great for the Rally University. I love that thing.

Brad - I would actually love to practice escape a few times in various scenarios. I know that some of the road race bodies require you to do escape testing. Maybe I'm just paranoid and inviting bad luck or however you want to see it, but I actually like to prepare as best I can. You're never thinking all that clearly when the adrenaline starts going, so having some muscle memory to it is never a bad thing.

I wish it were even reasonable to test like roll escape and such, but the practicalities there are pretty harsh.

So far I am pretty good about not taking the books from the car - the dash is a perfect shelf when I'm unbuckling and hopping out, so I toss the whole set up there and keep them there. I did think about that in the past, and realized I should try to not. Even more worrying would be losing the time card.
 
#27 ·
If Anders is listening, these kind of veteran tips are great for the Rally University. I love that thing.
Since you asked, I wrote up a little something with pieces of the info from this thread. Thank you for being the spark!

http://www.nasarallysport.com/main/what_if_I_crash_when_it_is_dark

I'm glad you're liking Rally University. :) It makes the time put into it worthwhile. Spread it around, I'm hoping it makes it easier for other folks to get started in rally. :D

Anders
 
#14 ·
We've thankfully never yet had a serious off. Our best one so far was our famous "FMG Veronica" moment at Targa Newfoundland 2010 when the Nissan 240 fell into a deep rock-filled ditch, co-driver side down (of course).





Cars run at 30-sec intervals at Targa and still Martin was out his door with triangle and OK sign ready in time to warn the next car. I couldn't get my door open, so I climbed out my window. It's nice to know I can actually do that.

Another time we were jammed into a snowbank (again on my side). I couldn't open my door, so again Martin hopped out with the triangle. I didn't feel like falling out of my window armpit deep into a snowbank, or filling my boots with snow, so I climbed over and out the driver's door.

That's bloody awkward! Have you ever tried that in your car?

Climbing over the centre console, gear shift and handbrake lever in the way. Then you fall into the driver's deep bucket seat, now there's no way to get your long legs around because the steering wheel is in the way. You sorta have to do a backwards somersault to get your legs out the door, then your HANS hangs up and you strangle yourself with your helmet strap.

Meanwhile Martin comes running back and finds me hanging upside down in his seat. WTF are you doing? :eek:
 
#15 ·
I actually kind of want to try getting out via the driver's side sometime, just to know how clumsy it will be. Driver is much shorter than I am, so the seat<>wheel distance is pretty small. I'm quite certain it won't be fun if I ever have to do it. The way you describe it seems pretty confusing. I assumed I'd end up climbing his seat as if it were a ladder and out is "up".
 
#16 ·
If the car ends up on its side, or roof, I imagine it would work like that. In a real emergency, I'd just dive head first out the door or window. But with the car sitting flat on its wheels, I made the mistake of dragging myself across butt first, then had no room to swing my legs around. It was clumsy and awkward.

Always worth watching is the classic video in this thread: http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?37689
Temporarily stuck in car by HANS
"Mother****er I hate this ****ing sport!"

I get the giggles every time I watch that. But it could have been much more serious.
 
#23 ·
Twas I hung inverted in the 'I hate this flunking sport!' video. Was the tombstone part of HANS stuck on something on roof after I released my harnesses, main hoop perhaps. The video caught the attention of HANS engineers who were calling me and perhaps the video spurred a redesign.
 
#25 ·
Yeah I think all the answers come down to having a storage bag/unit attached in the car in reach. It is amazing how fast you can move, but that same adrenaline that lets you do it also makes you dumb as the tree you just hit. I recall "durrr how do I make triangle from plastic thing" as I was standing there.
 
#29 ·
Eric Grochowski has a not so funny story about intercom cables.

His helmet intercom cable was one of those that's coiled and springy like a telephone cord, unlike the standard Peltor cable which is straight. He hopped out of his car, forgetting to unplug the cable and was brought up short when he reached the end of the tether. Just as he turned around to look back to see what the problem was, the cable unplugged itself and came zinging back into his face. The heavy plug on the end of the cable smacked him square in the eye, which then immediately swelled up tight. He had to drive the rest of the rally using only one eye, finishing with a nasty swollen black eye like somebody had punched him.

At least that's the story he told. Maybe Leanne actually did punch him? :cool:
 
#31 ·
Co-driver having a bad day story - My co-driver, who shall remain nameless to protect me, once had problems getting out of the car. The engine on the SAAB stopped for no apparent reason, I coasted to the side with the co-driver's door rather up hill. First as the co-driver opened the door and started to get out, the door swung back shut with the force of gravity behind it. There was a loud thunk as the door met the co-driver's still helmeted head. Next shove of the door got it fully open and as the co-driver got out, they forgot to unplug the intercom. As they got to the end of the tether, snap, their head got pulled back. Third time was a charm as the co-driver finally made it out of the car and down the road with a triangle. I was busy opening the hood so as to have protection when I laughed.
 
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