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rally net - protocols and conventions

22K views 30 replies 16 participants last post by  Bruce Beauvais 
#1 ·
I am sort of surprised there isn't a thread about this here. Once you have your ticket and radio, what should you be doing during the rally, and how do you avoid looking like a total jerk on the net?

I've got a darned good story from the old days, but I will save it until after we get some discussion going.
 
#3 ·
The best way to learn how to use your radio and how to work nets is to go do it. Large public events such as the MS 150 bike ride also use ham radio safety nets. That said, the FCC rule is that you can use tactical calls but you must give your call sign in closing. A net is directed, that is, don't speak unless spoken to. :) If you have something to report, first you call net. Here is a typical conversation:

Control, this is Marshal 23.

Marshal 23, go ahead.

Car 27 is off the road within my sight. The crew is out and signalling OK. Marshal 23 monitoring. KC5TRY

Control copies.

Oh by the way, the reason the rally is usually the only group on the repeater is because the regular repeater users who pay for the upkeep of the repeater have given permission for it to be used and have chosen to not use it during the rally.
 
#19 ·

I had been contemplating something like this -- "scenario scripts" for our most common and/or most worrisome issues... I even played around with Audacity to "fake" some radio transmissions, but then realized why other folks get paid for voice-over work, lol... I am looking back through STPR net recordings to pull out real recordings that might be helpful, but have to start researching other server scenarios since "multimedia" may not be possible within our current wiki structure. Since we have so little time for on-site training, and some limitations due to facility space, I have been focusing heavily on online training. Unfortunately, "real-life" responsibilities keep interfering
:mad:.
 
#6 ·
OK, time to add a couple.
- Know your job and only transmit that information that relates to it. We probably could come up with a set of radio jobs and the appropriate communications.
- Make darned sure that your info is accurate and official. For example, noticing that CAR 0 is through is not sufficient to report stage is hot to NET. Wait for the captain to tell you it is hot.
- I disagree with Richard a bit on tactical callsigns, as we have generally interpreted the identification requirement to mean identify when a particular assignment opens and closes. I.E. 'WA9OHS is now START 5', then identify as START 5 until the transmission 'START 5 is now closed - WA9OHS'
 
#14 ·
OK, time to add a couple.
- Know your job and only transmit that information that relates to it. We probably could come up with a set of radio jobs and the appropriate communications.
Great thread idea!
This is what we have been working on for STPR. Nothing fancy, just modified versions of Rally America's job descriptions: http://stpr-rally-radio.wikispaces.com/Radio+Job+Descriptions Please feel free everyone to look around the wiki -- it is a work in progress. I have one for the winter rally, and it is linked from within the STPR wiki. While not up to date, more documentation can be found at
http://stpr-rally-radio.wikispaces.com/STPR+Radio+Documents. Eventually, I hope to create a variety of instructional media for documentation, procedures, protocols, radio maintenance, etc. and "port" that over to a "generic" rally radio wiki.


- Make darned sure that your info is accurate and official. For example, noticing that CAR 0 is through is not sufficient to report stage is hot to NET. Wait for the captain to tell you it is hot.
In our case, STPR is a centrally controlled directed net, in contrast to NEFR which cannot get enough repeater coverage. NEFR's Stage Captains become the defacto decision makers due to the lack of rally-wide radio coverage. For STPR, our radio ops should ONLY report that Car Zero has finished the stage. Next, typically, Car Zero will report on their assessment of stage conditions and recommend the stage be opened for competition (or that info will be relayed from Zero to Finish Radio for relay to Net). Finally, one of several experienced decision makers at Net Control will declare the stage "hot" after assuring a variety of other conditions have been met/double checked.

- I disagree with Richard a bit on tactical callsigns, as we have generally interpreted the identification requirement to mean identify when a particular assignment opens and closes. I.E. 'WA9OHS is now START 5', then identify as START 5 until the transmission 'START 5 is now closed - WA9OHS'
In our case, the repeater owner's wishes are that our radio ops begin with tactical signs, but MUST finish with their callsigns at the conclusion of each particular communication "thread" (e.g. series of transmissions with a start control about number of cars arriving from transit). The repeater owner's interpretation of the FCC rule has been challenged by folks who do not like STPR and felt that the race was abusing regulations; thankfully, these disputes have been settled amicably.
 
#7 ·
Time for my story.
This was back at an event in Colorado in 1980. Back before we had figured out the need for net control and a lot of stuff was very informal.

I was riding right seat in CAR 0 on stage 2, heading up a set of mountain switchbacks when I received a call from a friend who was working START2.
START2: "We have cars piling up. How long until you are ready?"
ME: "We're about 1/2 mile from the finish. We should be able to clear the stage in about 5 minutes"
(following unknown to me)
Radio guy turns to stage captain and says "They say they will be clear in 5 minutes". Captain turns to starter and says "Release the first car in 5 minutes"

Just then we encounter the last intersection just in time to see a drunk punch out the marshall, get back in his 1.5 ton wood truck and head down the course.
ME: "Start2, we have a problem and won't be able to open the stage until the truck is clear of the stage"
START2: "Uh oh" <pause> "We have started 2 cars already"

And this friends is how I found myself sitting in a Fire Arrow running at 100 MPH downhill against rally traffic while flipping the OSCARS on and off for dear life.

P.S. We stopped both cars. The sheriff arrested the truck driver at START2. He was convicted for DUI and assault. I learned a valuable lesson that day about conversation vs official information.
 
#8 ·
I think the concern with tactical vs FCC is the requirement to identify every 10 minutes during operation. I've looked at a number of the ARES net protocols, and even they differ on what is considered a directed net conversation (only need to ID at the end). As a worker, I have often been reminded to use the FCC to end my transmissions. As such, I have gotten into the habit of opening with Tactical, and ALWAYS using the FCC to finish the last portion of the particular exchange.

This is likely more relevant in a course car, where I am not on air on a "routine" basis, than a stationary work position/stage worker relaying info at regular intervals during a hot stage.
 
#9 ·
I think it is wise to ID at the end of each series of transmissions or every 10 minutes. There are folks out there who resent what we do and will look for any opportunity to make a stink over things like this.

You also need to be careful with your use of words. For example phrases like cars are rolling or cars are piling up can easily be misconstrued.
 
#10 ·
I think it is wise to ID at the end of each series of transmissions or every 10 minutes. There are folks out there who resent what we do and will look for any opportunity to make a stink over things like this.
Might be a regional thing, depending on where you are working. Much of my experience has been in Colorado using either temporary repeaters or rural ones where we drew much of the comms from the repeater club. lately, I have worked a few in Michigan UP, which is much the same.

At any rate, I will always defer to NET Control's direction on this and everything else. If he is asking for TAC ID only, that's what I will give.
 
#11 ·
The exact regulation from the FCC:

97.119 Station identification.
(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication, ........

Hence, when using tactical calls, always end your communication with your call sign. When running control, always give your call sign every 10 minutes.
 
#13 ·
I volunteer at a lot of the same events as ^^^.

Our events have fairly informal radio protocol. You are allowed to "chew the rag" and chat as long as the stage is not running. At our typical events you are in the car and out in the boonies for 12-16 hours. You can hardly expect people to do that under a full formal net. We do pass on information like the top 3 cars via the radio. It helps keep the volunteers entertained and alert. My second time at Tall Pines, I did not have a radio and I had to leave without going back to HQ. When I got home my wife asked me who won - I didn't know!

Once the stage is running the Stage Commander (normally start radio) or Area Commander is in charge of the frequency. Start, Finish and normally a mid-point radio call each car (or two mid-points of a long stage). Other radios are normally only contacted if a car has gone missing. Tactical signs are used and when they are set-up each radio repeats their HAM sign, as well as their tactical to satisfy the IC requirements and then as soon as the stage is finished.
 
#18 ·
Funny, sort of off the topic but still radio related: While sitting in the rally car listening to the net, we saw a Subie of some sort come flying across the finish with the brakes glowing bright red. The radio operator almost had a fit trying to get someone to go tell the driver that his brakes were on fire. We wanted to break into the net to tell him that was normal but held off so as not to interrupt.
 
#21 ·
Funny, sort of off the topic, and non-radio-related commentary: I've come into a finish with my brakes glowing red and had some guy run up with a fire extinguisher all set to insta-freeze my rotors. Nearly blew out my codriver's eardrums yelling "NO NO NO NO!" into the intercom.
 
#22 ·
The biggest thing to remember when working Radio at a Rally is to Listen and Shut Up. If your assignment is a Radio Operator then your job is to listen to the Net and answer their questions when they ask. If they can't raise you, the stage has to stop. Net Control doesn't need to know every little thing that happens on your stage. If the problem can be taken care of in the woods, take care of it and don't bother Net Control.
The biggest frustration I've had at Rallys is to have the information that Net Control needs, but not be able to get into the Net because too many other people were talking about stuff that was not important at that time.
The Nets I've seen that work the best use a Tactical to call in, and Call Sign when your done. The Tactical lets everybody know where you are, Stage 2 Start, which helps everybody know what's going on. You don't get to talk until Net Control acknowledges you, they may have other things going on that you can't hear, another radio, phone, lunch who knows. When they acknowledge you, you transmit your information or question. This may involve a few back and forth communications. When you are all done with what you needed to say you give your Call Sign. Net gives their Call Sign. This lets Net Control and everybody else know that you are done talking and someone else can now talk. It always good to wait a couple of seconds to see if someone else has a transmission that is more important than yours. Of course if you are too polite you will never get in.
Think about what you are going to say before you say it, ask yourself how important is it that Net Control get this information, and proceed accordingly.
Remember, Net Control is usually no where near the Rally, they make all the decisions but you are their eyes and ears. They need good information, so they can make good decisions.

Rally On!
Kevin D
 
#23 ·
Think about what you are going to say before you say it, ask yourself how important is it that Net Control get this information, and proceed accordingly.
Remember, Net Control is usually no where near the Rally, they make all the decisions but you are their eyes and ears. They need good information, so they can make good decisions.

Rally On!
Kevin D
All good information. That last part is very dependent on the type of net being used. Some stages are single repeater with stage comms going through net. Typically a long stage in hilly terrain. In that case, every off becomes something that needs to be reported, but if the stage can be worked simplex, then only the comms related to entry of car 0, going hot and stage complete are necessary.
 
#24 ·
As a short response to this great thread, closing your transmission with the call does things. It lets the NCS station know that you are through passing information as well as satisfying the FCC ID reg. I have worked events where one signed into the net at the beginning and used tactical only until signing out of the net many hours later. I was never comfortable with that procedure. That was many years ago and that event now works the same as all the rest I work. It's one consequence of adding "rally" hams to the net as opposed to our early reliance on local hams only. As many hams now travel to other events, it's very useful to standardize comm procedures.
 
#27 ·
I have worked events where one signed into the net at the beginning and used tactical only until signing out of the net many hours later. I was never comfortable with that procedure.

Same. I've worked net control at events that tended in that direction. I always encourage people to ID once every 10 minutes or at the end of an exchange, because I find it keeps the locals happier. It's easy to forget that we can seem like interlopers on "their" turf when we suddenly show up en masse with our tactical callsigns and weird jargon. Following the rules, however arbitrary they can seem, helps make us seem like good neighbors.

(And yeah, I realize I'm replying to a 5 year old post, but it's a good topic.)

PS: Pet peeve: If someone has a stuck mic, it does no good to key up and say "we have a stuck mic on the frequency." The one person who can do something about it can't hear you because they're stuck in "transmit" instead of "receive." ;)
 
#28 ·

Same. I've worked net control at events that tended in that direction. I always encourage people to ID once every 10 minutes or at the end of an exchange, because I find it keeps the locals happier. It's easy to forget that we can seem like interlopers on "their" turf when we suddenly show up en masse with our tactical callsigns and weird jargon. Following the rules, however arbitrary they can seem, helps make us seem like good neighbors.

It's not part of this thread keeping the locals happy is very important. Several years ago,after Sno*Drift, local users filed a complaint with the FCC regarding lack of IDs ( tactical calls) and use of codes (rally jargon). The organizers scrambled to answer the complaint and clarify our use. They did so successfully. We had had the enthusiastic support of the repeater trustee before and after the complaint. We suspected that some old-time ham was kept from his use of the repeater and filed the complaint. It was the perfect repeater, smack dab in the center of the event. We no longer use that one and use one much farther east with much poorer coverage.

PS: Pet peeve: If someone has a stuck mic, it does no good to key up and say "we have a stuck mic on the frequency." The one person who can do something about it can't hear you because they're stuck in "transmit" instead of "receive." ;)


Mine too. I work races in the summer and the same thing happens there. At least there, most people with radios are in sight and one can either look to see who's transmit light is on or figure out who's voice or conversation is being overheard.
 
#31 ·
I always encourage people to ID once every 10 minutes or at the end of an exchange, because I find it keeps the locals happier. It's easy to forget that we can seem like interlopers on "their" turf when we suddenly show up en masse with our tactical callsigns and weird jargon. Following the rules, however arbitrary they can seem, helps make us seem like good neighbors.

[/QUOTE]
This is an important observation, SNO*DRIFT runs out of Atlanta,MI. When we first brought the event back, there was a repeater right in Atlanta. One year- many years ago- a local did take offence to the "interlopers" and all of the above mentioned items . They reported to the FCC about using "codes" ( rally jargon) and failure to ID. This generated a pink slip to the repeater trustee.
Fortunately, NCS had kept a careful log- there may have even been recording of the net. We were able to submit a satisfactory answer for the trustee . The pink slip went away. We never used that repeater again. Last I looked, the repeater is gone.
 
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