Unique Rally Cars and why we don't see more of them

[sureshot007]

Using a 'new' car as a rally car means you have to buy one still. And I'd rather find $1000 civic shell on craigslist than have to shell out $15k on a Sonic.

The only truly important thing is it's what you want. Anything can be made into a rally car. If you want to win, well there are some that are better than others. If you want it to be cheap, there is another short list of those. If you want it to be competitive AND cheap, well then you are probably just going to build another subaru or vw like everyone else.

For more silly inspiration:
https://www.specialstage.com/forums/s...-seen-rallying

[ugly]

All my rally cars have been competitive and cheap! MK2 Escort, MG Maestro, Subaru legacy, Suzuki Swift GTI and now the Mini. I can't say how the Mini will be but out of my the Subaru was the most reliable. The Legacy never DNF'ed but saying that luck has a lot to do with it as the Swift is really competitve but DNF'ed 3 times due to bad luck.

[bknblk]

Just got back in from Ojibwe and if anyone is fussing about "all the blue subarus" they haven't been to a rally lately. The only "blue" subaru I saw was a showcar from the local sponsering autodealer, and it looked more Gymkhana than rally. i didn't acually count but there were more Fords and Chevys there than Subarus and the crowd pleasing Fiesta wasn't the Block Hoonmobile, it was a pair of super excited boys from Salem in a 25 year old barnfind!

Unique rally cars are alive and well.

[bknblk]

Just got back in from Ojibwe and if anyone is fussing about "all the blue subarus" they haven't been to a rally lately. The only "blue" subaru I saw was a showcar from the local sponsering autodealer, and it looked more Gymkhana than rally. i didn't acually count but there were more Fords and Chevys there than Subarus and the crowd pleasing Fiesta wasn't the Block Hoonmobile, it was a pair of super excited boys from Salem in a 25 year old barnfind!

Henry Krolikowski / Cynthia Krolikowski
2000 Subaru Impreza 1:30:28.2 0:00.0 0:00.0
2 339 SP 1 Chris O'Driscoll / Lori O'Driscoll
2007 Subaru WRX 1:37:44.0
3 787 SP 2 Wim van der Poel / Bryan Lord
2005 Mitsubishi Evo VIII 1:37:49.2 7:21.0 0:05.2
4 636 L 1 Samir Kaltak / Rachelle Kaltak
1997 Subaru Impreza 1:40:11.4 9:43.2 2:22.2
5 1 627 G5 1 Robert LaFavor / Derek Beyer
1990 Ford Mustang 1:43:19.2
6 1 92 G2 1 Derek McCorison / Paul Johansen
2003 Hyundai Tiburon 1:43:39.2
7 1 558 G5 2 James Cox / Scott Parrott
2004 Chevrolet S10 1:46:21.0 15:52.8 2:41.8
8 1 426 L 2 Scott McCarty / Alix Hakala
1996 Subaru Impreza 1:46:31.6
9 553 G5 3 Anthony Wood / Sam Wood
1983 Chevy Citation 1:47:25.8 16:57.6 0:54.2
10 128 G2 2 Mychal Summers / Ryan DesLaurier
1987 Mazda RX-7 1:49:12.6 18:44.4 1:46.8
11 542 L 3 Matthew Conte / Ron Erickson
1994 Subaru Legacy 1:49:19.2 18:51.0 0:06.6
12 710 G2 3 Mark Holden / Colin Vickman
1991 Nissan Sentra SE-R 1:51:18.6 20:50.4 1:59.4
13 973 G2 4 John Munroe / Ceilidh Munroe
1973 Toyota Corolla 2:02:43.2
14 654 G2 5 David Grenwis / Josh Cagle
1987 VW GTI 2:12:05.8
237 G2 Micah Nickelson / Tyler Ptacek
1987 Volkswagon Golf GTI DNF
26 G5 Cary Kendall / Scott Friberg
2005 Dodge SRT-4 DNF
911 G2 Ron Malott / Paul Malott
2001 VW Jetta vr6 DNF
661 L Kevin Young / James Dallman
1993 subaru impreza DNF
789 G2 Zach Williams / Kyle Williams
1992 Ford Festiva DNF
906 L Johan Bjorkquist / Eric Benson
1992 Eagle Talon TSI DNF
428 G2 Dan Drury / Timothy Anderson
1989 Suzuki Swift DNF
701 G5 Richard Miller / Juanita Miller
1995 Ford Mustang GT DNF
94 O Peter Fetela / Ray Vambuts
1998 Subaru Impreza STi DNF
242 G2 Mark Huebbe / John Huebbe
1970 Volkswagen Beetle DNF
635 G5 Robert Wright / Misha Avrushenko
1985 Saab 900T DNF
50 G2 Allan Dantes / Jennifer Majszak
1995 VW Jetta DNF
240 G2 Ian Seppanen / Christopher Gordon
1991 Nissan 240SX DNF
751 G2 John Kimmes / Greg Smith
1992 Volkswagen GTI DNF
171 O Carl Siegler / David Goodman
1996 Subaru Impreza DNF
852 O Christopher Cramer / Michael Handow
1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 DNF
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Unique rally cars are alive and well.

[granthughes]

It's not that my rally car is unique, it's just that there are only a small handful of us elite intelligentistas. What I mean is, it's not unique, there is just only a few of us smart enough to recognize the best platform available to rally in the US.
New cars are nice if your company provides one for you. Otherwise, it's a money suck luxury. Definitely not a good place to look for a potential rally car, especially not a first rally car.
I paid over $1200 for a car once. Twelve years ago...

[GuyB]

Thanks Tony for the list of cars at Ojibwe. I still notice that there is quite a few Subaru's in that list, but at least they are unique!

It seems like Grant has the right idea for me right now, buy a inexpensive car. That is very likely what I would do someday soon. I believe what others say when your first rally car should be purchased. I will someday soon be in a position to be able to Buy the Lada that is for sale right now up here in Ontario. I don't think anyone wants to be the last one holding that hot potato. You'd have so many previous owners looking down at you for ending the life of the car!

I am still hoping this thread might get a little more technical in nature, to describe what may be a deal breaker in turning some standard street car into a rally car. Like X amount of Suspension travel, Y amount of control arm length. Z amount of ground clearance. Things like that could be useful to others who want to build a car.

[sureshot007]

I can see this isn't going anywhere good, or even entertaining...

[granthughes]

I am still hoping this thread might get a little more technical in nature, to describe what may be a deal breaker in turning some standard street car into a rally car. Like X amount of Suspension travel, Y amount of control arm length. Z amount of ground clearance. Things like that could be useful to others who want to build a car.

Size and flimsyness or suspension components.
Twist style rear beams more likely to twist in a non-desirable way.
Balljoints should be larger. Replaceable and not integrated into arms can save money provided the arms are strong enough.
Ability to adjust camber, especially dialing in more negative in front means increasing ride height and you can fix the positive camber without need fabricated control arms or top mounts to fix.
Steel control arms and trailing/multi link stuff is able to be easily reinforced and is more likely to bend than break increasing chance of driving out of stage.
Geometry of front arms, tie rods, and mounting points on hub.
Size of CVs and equal length halfshafts to reduce torque steer.
Ability to obtain a clutch type LSD for differential.
Ability to obtain better final drive ratios for gearbox.
If turbo AWD and want competitive, must have an active center differential to be competitive.
Overall weight and weight distribution.

There's amazingly few options out there that really make sense to rally in my opinion. If you want AWD and have the kind of money to afford open or SP, an Evo or STI. If you still want AWD but don't have that kind of budget, an Open Light older Impreza. FWD a Honda Civic or Integra (see Billy Elliot Mann's build thread). RWD an E36 BMW, Volvo 240 or Merkur XR4ti. Of course, that is applying logic and this is a passion so you CAN build anything you want.

[ihbobry]

I wanted to start with my wonder of why no one has tried to create a new style Celica Rally car

Jeff Becker RNY 200???? never saw the car again...

[Colin B]

Last time I checked rally is still supposed to be a competition - therefore people choose a vehicle that is competitive and hopefully safe/reliable in the interest of doing as well as possible. Picking unique or "quirky" cars for the sake of variety for spectators is a waste of time if they can't be competitive. And if more people spent more time learning how to drive faster and less worrying about the car they were in US rally would me more interesting to watch...