Tarmac Rallies? - Page 2
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Thread: Tarmac Rallies?

  1. #11

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    In PA we have tarmac hillclimbs. It's not stage rally but you get a couple shots at it over the weekend.
    See www.pahillclimb.org
    Joe
    TreadZone

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  3. #12

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    this NY -NJ area /Bear Mountain park and Seven lakes park is very very close to many rally guys. i am sure if some one do this + put pictures etc about the road is a def. will get into many many rally guys head

  4. #13
    Open AWD Extraordinaire! EricW's Avatar
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    The Chasing the Dragon Hillclimb in NC is all tarmac.

    As is the Crow Mountain Hillclimb held in AL.
    Eric Wages
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  6. #14

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    those are very famous roads , dont they? SO if they are, they would close them down for rally?
    I always want to see the dragon actually

  7. #15
    The Scorpion King John Sundelin's Avatar
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    I think the problem is twofold, and the two factors form a vicious circle. First, you need a suitable road. It's not surprising that most of these roads are in the East for a variety of technical and sociopolitical reasons. So, you have a limited number of roads, confined to a part of the country where only about 1/3 of the competitors are. Only a subset of those competitors are interested in going, because, as has been pointed out, they could just go to a hillclimb event or a track day for a "similar" experience, so if they are going to a rally, they're probably going to go to a gravel event. Personally, I think it would be fun, and I hope to make it to Rally TN one of these years, but the "bang for the buck" factor is a little low.

    --
    John

  8. #16
    NASA Rally Sport grassroots!!! Anders Green's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dazed driver View Post
    Do we just not have the roads, or desire for tarmac rallies?
    Roads out the wazoo. Most ralliers in this country, however, have a gravel mindset. The majority of rally drivers in the US have never been to a tarmac rally and imagine that it's all very tidy driving with no "sideways excitement". The truth is that the surface has more variable grip than gravel by a WIIIIDE margin and you absolutely need the sideways skills you've developed. But that's one of the things that people don't believe until they've experienced it themselves. (Which means, naturally, that I know most people that read this paragraph both won't believe it.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Donovan View Post
    i think it is because tarmac permits are harder to get because there are more people living on them and the roads have more traffic.
    Having organized both tarmac and gravel rallies, I'd say that tarmac roads are easier as far as permitting, as there isn't the issue with road deterioration. Residents are residents, you can have them on a paved road or a dirt road and the surface makes no difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by dazed driver View Post
    How do you even go about NOT making the road straight...
    Everything is geography, geology, and economics. For example, at Rally Tennessee, the roads are twisty and roller-coastery... like a drunk person drew them. Why? The local road surface is 'chirt', which is like a sand with granola-like coarseness, all glued together with tar. It's a local resource which you can dig right out of the ground (the TN Gas stage goes right by one of the pits). The area wanted the roads, but wanted to do them in the lowest cost way possible, optimizing for cost, not travel time. So, by building right along the drainage lines and crests of the hills, they didn't have to do any culverts or cross-road drainage. Very cheap road to build and about zero to maintain... but crazy-twisty.

    Quote Originally Posted by bentmettle View Post
    Blowing through a stone wall and tumbling down the side of a mountain doesn't compute in my risk assessment.
    I don't see it as any different than not hitting the stone wall and tumbling down the side of a mountain. Used to run near a 300' drop at Black River stages. STPR was famous for having those "little pine trees" on the side of one stage... that were actually fully grown but down a cliff. At Cherokee Trails one year they used 400 feet of cable to pull Seamus' car back up to the road. The surface doesn't make the mountain, the same risks are present on gravel.

    But that particular argument is a straw-man anyway... neither of the current tarmac events have cliffs on the other side of rock walls, so you would have to list a different reason for not attending them.

    Tarmac rallies suffer from the same issue that snow rallies have: people imagine that they have to get new tires and it's so expensive and complicated. Well, we're all getting new tires to race anyway, so that's moot over the course of a couple seasons. The suspension issues are another psychological stumbling block, even if the reality is that you just lower the car an inch or two and you're fine. Sure, you could x,y,z and it will make the car faster. But it's still rally, meaning that, in the US, it's the driver that's the limit, not the equipment.

    Rob, give me a call this week, 919.697.5282 is my cell, and we can talk about it. NASA Rally Sport is actively working on resources for new organizers, like the link Eric posted that's only about a week old. I also recently converted all the Appendix A stuff to actual usable PDFs posted online, which are more handy resources for organizers. Yesterday's project was a sample "introduction letter" of the type used to give to Chambers of Commerce or County Council members when you first approach them. So NRS is very much 'in the trenches' when it comes to this.

    Cheers,
    Anders
    NASA Rally Sport Director
    Your question is probably answered in Rally University.

  9. #17

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    i'll do Anders i'll do

    I just have to prep my car until Thursday for painting, so i will work from the morning to late night. After the RKT takes over . We have short couple weeks left until MT Washington. But i know rally takes time to organize /as much as i know / so i'll call you asap in this week.

    Cheers Rob

    ps : the roads i was thinking is a very close radius, and there is many great option for HQ, example the bear mountan park :
    they always have car shows etc and would be a middle of the rally or heart of it
    also has restaurants bathrooms etc. and HUGE parking lot!
    restaurant - bathroom building:

    http://www.hotrodhotline.com/feature/2006show/06bear/

    my imaginary rally HQ



    wish us luck, and you will have a blast rally soon ,if you wish you can call it mini monte carlo !

  10. #18

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    by the way , its worth to mention it, this is very close to new york city - nj etc. and there is MANY first gen EU. guys living, who knows and care about rally. Takes them aprox. 45 minutes from the city to get there... Its not like the IRNY where you have to actually somehow find a stage or need help to find it, and no one knows rally. Which is one big factor for not showing up there, unknown location for them and the distance of the rally + distance between stages.
    This area is very well known and favorite weekend destination.versus /example Walton NY.
    I am not saying that is not a good place for rally, but location wise Bear Mountain is the jackpot if you can organize a rally there, spectator wise too.
    I am pretty excited about it ,if Andres can cook something up with the local governments.

    Rob

  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robevo View Post
    i'll do Anders i'll do

    I just have to prep my car until Thursday for painting, so i will work from the morning to late night. After the RKT takes over . We have short couple weeks left until MT Washington. But i know rally takes time to organize /as much as i know / so i'll call you asap in this week.

    Cheers Rob

    ps : the roads i was thinking is a very close radius, and there is many great option for HQ, example the bear mountan park :
    they always have car shows etc and would be a middle of the rally or heart of it
    also has restaurants bathrooms etc. and HUGE parking lot!
    restaurant - bathroom building:

    http://www.hotrodhotline.com/feature/2006show/06bear/

    my imaginary rally HQ



    wish us luck, and you will have a blast rally soon ,if you wish you can call it mini monte carlo !
    The problem with Bear mountain and the surrounding area is that it is a very common place for recreational activities. It is common ground for hikers, cyclists and motorcyclists. There are even occasional car club days etc.. In fact I went to a Lotus Test day organized by a dealership. Even though these events run frequently, I have never heard of or seen the roads being closed. I would imagine getting permits and closing a road during the spring/summer/fall would be almost impossible. I wish you luck.

  12. #20
    Four tree two remember Andrew wvonkessler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turoc View Post
    The problem with Bear mountain and the surrounding area is that it is a very common place for recreational activities.
    For a long time now. Name always reminds me of this song:

    I saw it advertised one day
    Bear Mountain picnic was comin’ my way
    “Come along ’n’ take a trip
    We’ll bring you up there on a ship
    Bring the wife and kids
    Bring the whole family”
    Yippee!

    Bob Dylan
    (c) 1962
    "Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?"

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