PGT Brakes in CARS - Page 3
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Thread: PGT Brakes in CARS

  1. #21

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    What else have been discussed?

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  3. #22

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    In all honesty, I agree with the JDM thing. Sure, they make good RELATIVELY inexpensive rally cars but this is North America and rally is about racing what you can generally buy off the street, here in NA. An imported car, even if it is 15 years old, still seems like it's cheating that rule, which is a rule I whole heartedly accept.

    As for the brakes, I think PGT should have stayed as is and we should have introduced SP instead, but I can also see the argument against more classes. Although look at Colin's PGT WRX that golt sold recently, 2.5L motor and the 4/2 pot brakes and it's not as if Hardy couldn't match pace with it. So I really don't see a major issue. I certainly don't think this rule is going to render rally unaffordable for folks interested in being competetive in PGT. If nothing else, allowing people to get away from the god-awful 5-speed and other weaker WRX components will make rally more affordable, even if the initial cap cost is a tad higher.
    Rally - Racing the way nature intended it.

  4. #23
    Flat everywhere
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC Bourgeois View Post
    ......... Although look at Colin's PGT WRX that got sold recently, 2.5L motor and the 4/2 pot brakes and it's not as if Hardy couldn't match pace with it...........
    Whatever....LOL

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  6. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by colinminicooper View Post
    Whatever....LOL
    I was thinking of Rocky 2009 when I said that... pretty close.

    2009 RMR Results
    Pos Car Driver CoDriver Vehicle Class Total Time Novice
    1 2 Patrick Richard Alan Ockwell 2008 Subaru WRX STi Open 01:32:34.00
    2 3 Andrew Comrie-Picard Robbie Durant 2009 Mitsubishi EVO X Open 01:38:50.00
    3 11 Nick Mathew Kelly Mathew 2005 Subaru WRX STi Open 01:41:03.30 Yes
    4 12 Simon Losier Francois Morin 2005 Mitsubushi EVO 8RS Open 01:41:42.40
    5 13 Colin Armstrong Keith Morison 2006 Subaru Impreza PGT 01:41:45.30
    6 4 Gord Olsen Todd Patola 2007 Subaru WRX Open 01:42:06.90
    7 6 Hardy Schmidtke Adam Vokes 2002 Subaru WRX PGT 01:42:57.90

    However, when you look at PFR 2009, it was a different story, and I think you were running 5th at PFR until the flat so a bit of disparity there, you're right. I can't remember if Hardy had problems at that event or not though. Hardy normally placed much higher so I am suspecting he had some issues.

    2009 PFR Results
    Pos Car Driver CoDriver Vehicle Class Total Time Novice
    1 2 Patrick Richard Alan Ockwell 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STi Open 01:26:12.40
    2 1 Antoine L'Estage Nathalie Richard 2009 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X Open 01:27:23.00
    3 9 Scott Trinder Bill Westhead 1995 Subaru WRX-RA Open 01:33:45.20
    4 3 Simon Losier Francois Morin 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 8 Open 01:34:13.50
    5 11 Mark Jennings-Bates Jennifer Daly 1993 Subaru Impreza Open 01:36:54.90
    6 15 Jan Zedril Jody Zedril 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer ES 4B11 Gr 2 01:39:16.80
    7 10 Colin Armstrong Keith Morison 2006 Subaru Impreza WRX PGT 01:40:46.90
    8 18 Graham Bruce Ryan Warrington 2002 Subaru Impreza Open 01:42:06.50 Yes
    9 16 Eric Grochowski Leanne Junnila 1996 VW Golf Gr 2 01:42:23.50
    10 12 Dave Hintz Rick Hintz 2002 Subaru Impreza WRX Open 01:42:39.80
    11 5 Hardy Schmidtke Adam Vokes 2002 Subaru Impreza WRX PGT 01:43:20.00

    Anyway, my point is that they are not so different that an STI or an EVO is a guaranteed runaway from a WRX.
    Last edited by JC Bourgeois; 01-08-2011 at 08:56 AM.
    Rally - Racing the way nature intended it.

  7. #25
    Dramamine is for DramaQueens Morison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colinminicooper View Post
    Whatever....LOL
    Yah - I didn't have time to do the research on it but I didn't remember Hardy keeping pace. Regardless, single event comparisons have too many un-accounted factors in them and you'd want to look at average pace over a season to see any trends and even then those trends will be more about the driver than the car.

    I agree that this change won't suddenly make any car an underdog any more than the appearance of the WRX made the 2.5RS, which could easily compete with Talons, a disadvantaged platform. PGT is still very much about the driver.
    Keith Morison
    Morison Communications

  8. #26
    don't cut HiTempguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morison View Post
    PGT is still very much about the driver.
    Absolutely. And yes, the few times Hardy and Colin ended up competing can NOT really be compared (I'm sure there are some stage times that can though). PFR we broke the tranny. Colin had a flat at Rocky but lucked out as the stage was cancelled IIRC. We beat Colin at Cochrane that year (again, IIRC, it was his first PGT event). I can't remember what other events we did where him and Keith competed.

    I will also point out that Hardy slowed significantly for quite a bit of 2009 after destroying the car at the 2008 Tall Pines. It sure would be entertaining to see Colin and Hardy go at it if both were in mechanically sound cars and in the right spirit. It'd be like competing against Onur (and now Brandon and Max)!

    Wish you were here Colin X0X0 Oh yea, and that guy who sells clothing or something. He could also come out to play...

    Edit-
    This isn't to say that I now agree with this rule. Talon's, 2.5RS', Legacies, and WRX's are a relatively level playing field due to the restrictor. My opinion. The whole CRC is about the driver though, as a fast paced PGT WRX could (last season) place top 5 or better. Not anymore though, things have gotten real good in the top 10
    Last edited by HiTempguy; 01-08-2011 at 11:33 PM.
    Adam

    Blew up the clutch at PFR, back at it for Big White!

  9. #27
    Dramamine is for DramaQueens Morison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiTempguy View Post
    This isn't to say that I now agree with this rule. Talon's, 2.5RS', Legacies, and WRX's are a relatively level playing field due to the restrictor.
    Sorry, but if you actually beleive this you are delusional. A very well driven talon can keep up to a moderately well driven WRX on the right stages but at the end of the day a PGT WRX will run-away from a PGT Talon easily. That said, the Talon and the 2.5RS are well matched. I know from experience that a tight and technical stage evens out a PGT WRX and a PGT 2.5RS but open the stage up just a bit and the WRX will run away.

    Quote Originally Posted by HiTempguy View Post
    My opinion. The whole CRC is about the driver though, as a fast paced PGT WRX could (last season) place top 5 or better. Not anymore though, things have gotten real good in the top 10
    Keith Morison
    Morison Communications

  10. #28
    don't cut HiTempguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morison View Post
    Sorry, but if you actually beleive this you are delusional.
    I have no doubt you'd think this Keith, and considering the way the rule changes have went, doesn't surprise me either!

    Quote Originally Posted by HiTempguy View Post
    The whole CRC is about the driver though, as a fast paced PGT WRX could (last season) place top 5 or better.
    I don't think I ever said anything about our team being the fast paced PGT wrx to which I referred. We got beat once or twice out east in 2009 (which is what I meant by last season, guess I should have specified).
    Adam

    Blew up the clutch at PFR, back at it for Big White!

  11. #29

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    Hey guys, when I brought up the comparison I didn't intend to chaffe any egos, it was simply the only example I could think of that kind of supported my point. Anyway, I do think the same driver in a wrx would probably lose out to an sti or evo on the same roads in the same conditions. This is why I think SP would have been best. However, I don't think the margin would be so different that it couldn't be overshadowed by a 1000 other factors (conditions, course tightness, tires, driver, etc.).
    Rally - Racing the way nature intended it.

  12. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by rallyboris View Post
    What else have been discussed?
    Anybody mentioned GPN Gearboxes in WRX?

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