Toyo R888 vs. R1R
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Thread: Toyo R888 vs. R1R

  1. #1
    Official pre-sweep vehicle Jim Robison's Avatar
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    Default Toyo R888 vs. R1R

    I am considering getting a set of Toyo tarmac tires for the Idaho Rally. Both the R888 and R1R come in my size and budget. Any thoughts as to which is better on a RWD with so-so HP?

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  3. #2
    don't cut HiTempguy's Avatar
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    I can say don't get the R888. Everybody that can has been going back to the RA1, including spec classes from what I understand. I even think Toyo is back to making the RA1 in some sizes due to its awesomeness.
    Adam

    Blew up the clutch at PFR, back at it for Big White!

  4. #3

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    Tarmac tires for Idaho? Am I missing something? I thought it was all dirt roads again like last year.

    -Erik

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    50 caution yump jrally's Avatar
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    I've been using R888 since about 6 months after they came out, zero issues. I'm not saying they are as good as the RA1s, but they are a good all around tire for track and street. I wouldn't drive RA1s on the street as much as I have the R888.

    -Jon
    Jon Rood
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  7. #5
    into right 2 tightens
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrally View Post
    I've been using R888 since about 6 months after they came out, zero issues. I'm not saying they are as good as the RA1s, but they are a good all around tire for track and street. I wouldn't drive RA1s on the street as much as I have the R888.

    -Jon
    I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the RA1s. I don't have any direct experience with the R888s, but the RA1s come with 8/32" tread depth vs. 6/32" tread depth for the R888, when unshaved. They are both have a UTGQ rating of 100 AA A, so the RA1s have an extra 2/32" tread depth when unshaved, and the RA1s are also known to wear extremely well.

    RA1s were recommended to me when I did some track days with the Audi back about 7 years ago, as they were very reasonably priced, and while they weren't the absolute ultimate tire from a grip point of view, they did wear very well, so I was able to get a number of track days out of them.

    Whereas both the RA1 and R888 are track tires, even though the R1R has a tread depth of 8/32" and a UTGQ rating of 140 AA A, it is generally considered an extreme performance summer tire rather than a track tire, so it's up to you whether you want more grip and less life, or less grip and more life. The RA1 may be a good compromise as it has the same tread depth as the R1R, but a softer and stickier compound.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Christiansen View Post
    Tarmac tires for Idaho? Am I missing something? I thought it was all dirt roads again like last year.

    -Erik
    I am confused as well. Unless I missed something and the fairground SSSs are tarmac rather than gravel, I also thought that all of the Idaho SSs were gravel.

  8. #6
    100 K right 4 typerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audi UrQ View Post
    I am confused as well. Unless I missed something and the fairground SSSs are tarmac rather than gravel, I also thought that all of the Idaho SSs were gravel.
    So did I but in the Idaho thread in the USA forum it says the Super Special is tarmac...
    Thomas Smith
    2M Racing

  9. #7

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    The R888's are a softer compound than the ORIGINAL RA-1s. It has not been proven, but it's no secret that most people suspect the NEW RA1 is the R888 compound in the OLD mould. And it seems reasonable... why bother using an old compound when you can put the new compound in the old mould, tell people its the old tire, and to STFU when they complain?

    In road racing, the R888 loses ultimate grip after 2-3 heat cycles and "falls off" much MORE in fewer heatcycles than the RA-1. However, it's still an R-compound tire, and I think unless you let them sit outside in the rain they will have more grip throughout their usable life than a "performance street tire" though not as much as a tarmac rally tire, albeit half? the cost.

    The R1R is a high performance / ultra summer street tire. I would recommend the R888 if you want grip, the R1R if you want a longer lasting street/trackday tire.

  10. #8

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    What's the typical life of a true rally tarmac tire compared to something like the RA-1 oor R888?

    The big thing about taking a road racing tire and doing rally with it, is that you go through many heat cycles in a rally. If you talk of the R888 going through 2-3 heat cycles, that means the tires will "fall off" by the time you get to first service. Is this something rally tarmac tires are good for? Allowance for more heat cycles on the tire before it falls off and still allowing superior grip to something like the RA1 or R888?

    We used RA1s at Rally Tennessee almost all weeken. Only changed because it was raining leading into last 4 stages. Sure enough when we left service it stopped raining and dried up. But anyway, the tires were great. Held up well and didn't have any real problems with wear as we rotated front <-> rear every service. I can't say to the degradation over the weekend as I was in the silly seat but from the butt dyno they seemed to be working.
    Billy Elliot Mann
    Car #37
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  11. #9
    pressing on tirelessly
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    I dunno about the 888's because my only experience with them has been driving someone else's car at 6-hr enduros, but I leave RA-1s on my Miata year round and and never thought they've fallen off. They seem to handle heat cycles just fine. I've had road tires like Azenis "grease up" after particularly hot lapping sessions, but RA-1s have always been pretty stable.

  12. #10

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    Last year I road raced a Spec Miata using both RA1s and R888s. This year, I'm road racing a CRX Si ITA/H4 car using shaved and full-tread R888s. The full-tread tires are my rain tires.

    Chris brings up a good point about the new RA1s possibly having the same compound as the R888. That might be true, but the hyper-competitive Spec Miata drivers I know prefer the RA1s (even the new ones) over the R888. Also, keep in mind that the R888 has a stiffer sidewall than the RA1. It's not just the tread pattern and compound that changed.

    For light, low-powered cars like Miatas, CRXes, Neons, etc., the RA1s tend to be good for 30-35 heat cycles before they're pretty much done. After that, grip really starts to drop off. Their best grip may be good for 5-8 heat cycles and they will drop off after that but the drop off is pretty gradual until you reach 35 or so heat cycles.

    I've found that shaved R888s grip pretty well, too. My current set of shaved R888s has around 16 heat cycles and they still grip well. Hopefully, they'll get me through another race weekend (8 more heat cycles). The problem that many drivers have with R888s is that they tend to have odd wear issues resulting in them wearing out earlier than the RA1s. I'm starting to see this after 16 heat cycles. The middle of the tread is wearing out faster than the outside parts. Many drivers also struggled trying to find the best hot tire pressure for grip and wear. It was simple with RA1s, best hot tire pressures tended to be around 38 psi which we'd see after a 3-4 hot laps on a dry track.

    In the rain, I'll take full-tread RA1s over full-tread R888s any day of the week and twice on race day. The RA1s channel water better (just look at the tread pattern). In fact, the last time I raced in the rain I decided that my current rain tires (R888s) will be shaved and used only in the dry. My new rain tires will be RA1s or maybe even Dunlop Star Specs.

    Also, bear in mind that track tires like the RA1s, R888s, Hoosier R6s, etc. need to be warmed up for best grip. This may take a few laps of hard driving. You might want to consider a good autocross tire such as the Dunlop Direzza Star Spec or even Falken Azenis if you're not able to warm up your tires. Just a thought. Plus, the Star Specs and the Azenis tires are cheaper than the RA1s or R888s.
    Last edited by MikeColangelo; 06-17-2010 at 09:47 PM.

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