Co-driver Conference Call X, WED 10/28, 8 p.m. CENTRAL
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  1. #1
    into right 2 tightens
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    Exclamation Co-driver Conference Call X, WED 10/28, 8 p.m. CENTRAL

    Co-drivers one and all,

    Please join us for our tenth FREE co-driver conference call.

    Date: Wednesday October 28th
    Time: 6 p.m. Pacific / 7 p.m. Mountain / 8 p.m. Central / 9 p.m. Eastern

    Dial in: (218) 339-4600
    Code: 989102#

    Please bring up topics specific to the co-driver (e.g. rules, differences in procedure, challenges, driver feedback, event feedback, general thoughts).

    Proposed Agenda:

    1. Past events debrief:
    - Prescott Rally (Oct 2-3)
    - Pacific Forest Rally (Oct 2-3)
    - LSPR (Oct 16-17)
    - IRNY (Oct 23-24)
    - Mt. Hood (Oct 24)
    - Rallye de Charlevoix (Oct 24)

    2. Upcoming events:
    - Kananaskis Rally (Nov 8)
    - Rally of the Tall Pines (Nov 20-21)
    - Rallye de Paris (Nov 28)

    3. Novice co-driver Q&A session. Passive listeners welcome, however novice co-drivers are actively encouraged to participate and ask questions. Please feel free to ask any questions you want, even if they seem basic

    4. R-A announcements i.e. compressed national championship plan & European-style Rally Cross

    5. Running overall vs. incremental mileages (advantages, disadvantages, when to use which etc.)

    6. Using paper maps & Potti/Barrow-style magnifiers (see: http://www.donbarrow.co.uk/magnifiers.html)

    7. Date for next conference call

    Topics we don't discuss due to time limits will be carried forward & added to next conference call's list of agenda items.

    Additional co-driver related agenda items welcome. PM me or post in this thread and I'll update the proposed agenda.

    Request: Please be considerate i.e. NO calls from noisy places e.g. bars, sports venues etc. as it ruins the call quality for everyone else.

    If you can't make it, you can always read the meeting minutes when posted after the call. And if you have questions, feel free to submit them ahead of time, and you can read the responses in the meeting minutes too. Also, please switch fax machines on shared / party lines off.

    Please help spread the word. You may learn something here. You may be able to help others learn something here. Whether you already are, or plan to be a co-driver, there's a good chance a great deal of collective wisdom (well, at least, of the rally co-driver variety) can be found here.
    Last edited by Audi UrQ; 10-26-2009 at 06:39 AM. Reason: Confirmed that conference line is indeed available on Wednesday

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  3. #2
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    Co-driver Conference Call X (10/28) Minutes

    1. Past events debrief:
    Prescott Rally - no co-drivers that competed on conference call, but some feedback regarding the organizer supplied notes here: https://specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38566

    LSPR - some competitors were not fans of the new schedule, though some liked it; Karen competed w/ Dougie, and when questioned as to events that transpired, Karen's official response was that it is a long, complicated story, no further comments, you'll need to ask Dougie about that, otherwise Jemba notes seemed good, probably just revision of last year's notes; Jason co-drove for Kevin Cline, unfortunately delivery of baggage holding suit, helmet & HANS was delayed. Moral of the story: co-drivers, when flying, take your suit, helmet & HANS as carry-on baggage on the plane with you!!; Jimmy worked a time control at the event, and was surprised by some co-drivers not checking their time cards, or pulling away from the time control before they had actually had their card handed back to them (sidenote: you may not back the car up in a time control, any distance, for any reason, without receiving a penalty!! If you accidentally pull away from a time control before you have had your time card handed back to you, have the driver stop the car and walk back); re the corner that caught a number of people out (see discussion here: https://specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38673), there was a suggestion that 00 could be last car representative of officials, and 0 car could be representative of competitors, but that is not in line with R-A's current official designated responsibilities for course opening cars.

    Mt. Hood - 2-pass recce, pretty muddy, pretty good notes, 3 stages, run back & forth a number of time in various configurations, some of the stages same as Oregon Trail

    Pacific Forest Rally, IRNY, Rally de Charlevoix - no co-drivers that competed on conference call


    2. Upcoming events:
    Kanaskis - no co-drivers on conference call planning to compete

    Rally of the Tall Pines - roads can get rough, weather can be variable so bring as many different tires as possible; Jeff planning to co-drive for Dave in a classic Volvo 242, Karen planning to co-drive for Bruno, and Jimmy planning to co-drive for Peter; sidenote: Jeff mentioned there is a new law in Ontario re drivers only being allowed to use hands-free electronics devices, potential CA$500 fine for not obeying new law

    Rallye de Paris - not running on national guard base this year, using county roads instead


    3. Novice co-driver Q&A session.
    New co-driver called in, since planning to compete in first rally at Rallye de Paris, and a number of seasoned co-drivers gave some good advice; discussed 3 primary tasks for a co-driver: navigation on transits, calling route book / notes on special stage, and handling of time cards at time controls


    4. R-A announcements i.e. compressed national championship plan & European-style Rally Cross
    Most seemed to agree that a reduced schedule of 6 events in 2010 vs. 9 event in 2009 was likely to lead to more meaningful competition, but will be interesting that R-A national championship will be over by mid-year; since Ojibwe, Rally CO and LSPR will no longer be on the R-A national calendar for 2010, so the organizers for those events are still trying to determine the best path forward; no real comments on European-style Rally Cross, since co-drivers will not be used; more discussion on this topic here: https://specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38668


    5. Running overall vs. incremental mileages (advantages, disadvantages, when to use which etc.)
    Most co-drivers who responded seemed to indicate that the majority of the time they just use overall mileages, though incremental mileages sometimes used for transits with long distances between instructions, where calibration errors can sometimes be significant (especially since many cars read mileages differently on a tarmac transit road vs. on a gravel stage, depending on drive train layout and sensor hookup method); also briefly discussed use of OEM factory odometer and/or a street navigation GPS as a fallback plan if the rally odometer is not working before event, or breaks during the event


    6. Using paper maps & Potti/Don Barrow-style magnifiers (see: http://www.donbarrow.co.uk/magnifiers.html)
    Can be useful for route book-only rallies i.e. where recce, Jemba, organizer-supplied stage/pace etc. notes are not available; this style of navigation is not well-known or practiced in the U.S., but is fairly common in the U.K.; you need to get hold of maps ahead of time, and can cost $50-60 for a set of maps that cover all of the stages for a specific rally; maps used are geodetic survey type, and accuracy often dependent on age of map; can be difficult to determine elevation changes, but generally accurate enough to determine degree radius of corner e.g. a L3 vs. a L4, but not accurate enough for + and - modifiers; to prepare: cut maps into strips corresponding to stages, highlight route, and copy useful info from route book onto map strips; to use: need a clipboard for a stable surface, and a Potti or Don Barrow style magnifier to provide light and magnify detail on map so big enough to read easily


    7. Date for next conference call
    Wednesday, December 2nd, 8 p.m. Central Time
    Last edited by Audi UrQ; 10-29-2009 at 09:05 AM. Reason: added conference call minutes

  4. #3
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    YAR! This is the same time as Wichita's SCCA meeting.

    I missed the last one that would have included Rally Colorado in the wrap up but I wanted to say something about my first time co-driving at that event. Being a driver and moving to a co-driver I felt was actually a very easy transition. I already knew mostly how timecards worked and how to calculate in times and whatnot. The part that I found to be the biggest help was knowing what to look for when reading the notes. I only ever got truly lost in the notes once, which was on the super fast stage with the chicanes.

    I don't know if this was totally necessary but if there is anyone that's thinking about making a transition, I found it very worthwhile.

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    Right Side Ballast dmoser's Avatar
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    I was all primed for this one until I saw it was on one of those rare weekeday evenings when I had something else scheduled. You're really good at hitting my busy nights!

    Looking forward to the post-call summary and, maybe, to being able to join the next one.

    Dick
    "In a battle of wits, it is poor sport to fight an unarmed man". - Samuel Clemens

  7. #5

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    I am going to try and get my g/f on the phone. She is going to be co-driving for me up at the paris/roxton rally. We both don't know a whole lot about co-driving so I will try to listen in as well.

  8. #6
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    Hi Robert,

    Hope you and/or your g/f can join us on the conference call this eve. Please feel free to ask any questions you want, even if they seem basic, we're here to help.

  9. #7
    Feeling like an "old timer." RRR_K2's Avatar
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    Crap, I wanted to call in, but it's game one of the World Series.
    Matt Kennedy
    www.RockyRoadRacing.com

    Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows. - Walter Röhrl

  10. #8
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    Not sure what 'World Series' you are referring to ... can't be MLB, since that's just a North American championship (in which only 2 out of 23 possible countries even bother to participate).

  11. #9
    codriveur
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audi UrQ View Post
    ....a North American championship (in which only 2 out of 23 possible countries even bother to participate).
    the co-driver in me can't let such a factual error stand... Please check the rules
    Bernie

  12. #10

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    Both myself and my g/f were on the call tonight (Robert Simmonds/Tamara Walton), we had to get off the phone call right around 9. Tam's email is [email protected] if you guys can send further info or good links for anything she could read. We learned quite a lot during the phone call. Looking forward to the rally up in Paris.

    I prob would be that guy backing up for leaving the control point w/o a time card and would have never known that was a rule without listening in. lol The call def had some good info.
    Last edited by BlacknRedGT; 10-28-2009 at 08:29 PM.

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