Removing Wiring.. Just want to be sure.. - Page 4
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Thread: Removing Wiring.. Just want to be sure..

  1. #31
    50 caution yump Cosworth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Elliot View Post
    friction surface = brake pads.
    Friction surface includes the swept area of the disks as well.
    P. Ferreira

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  3. #32
    don't cut
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    Quote Originally Posted by nperkins View Post
    well in that case i'm glad to help, and i'll keep asking questions... Is there a rulebook - English translation dictionary that could help me too?
    Good one, Noah......well, keep on asking questions. There is a lot in any rules set that is based on history, historical rules, and some specific knowledge of the particular racing series. It takes a while to learn the ropes, and in many cases, to read and re-read rulesto notice and understand nuances. You'll get there.

    Regards, and good luck,
    Mark B.

  4. #33
    Slid'n around 'n havin a ball randyzimmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heymagic View Post
    ...As to seat belt removal, in some states that is not alowed as SFi/FIA harness aren't DOT approved. Some cars have both sets. But 5.3.L.3 allows for comp harness' to be mounted in stock locations...
    Reminds me of everyone in Showroom Stock at the Run Offs taping sun visors and seatbelts to the cage to comply to a new ruling.

    One of the things I liked about rally was it was SCCA racing without the "protest until you win" mentality. Then I found that TSD was that way and most of the officials and organizers came from TSD.

    The Open classes are where the racers go.

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  6. #34
    I am not here anymore AlanPerry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heymagic View Post
    Listen Dragon breath... If you spent the time arguing on this forum correctly writing the rule book we wouldn't have these problems
    But just posting here is SO much easier!

    To be picky, the section on engine controls states (when discussing mods) that the harness cannot be modified. Most ECUs are not on the 'engine' harness but rather part of the body harness under the dash. Seems like stripping a harness is not intended.
    That is true, but, as I said, I believe that it is limited in scope. The scope was to allow plug-and-play aftermarket ECUs (and piggybacks) and disallow things like standalone upgrade ECUs, thus the restriction on cutting up the harness.

    Also rule states quite clearly the airbag may be removed..nothing more. Once the airbag is removed there is no compelling reason to remove modules, safing sensors or wiring.
    But my point was "what constitutes the airbag?" I cited two references (the VW R32 manual and Wikipedia) that imply that the airbag is the system, not just the unit containing the bag, gas source and firing mechanism. The rule should be more precise to be enforced.

    12.2.B.26.l. AC compressor, condenser, hoses, switches, fittings blah, blah may be removed. No mention of stripping harness.
    I like this because I wrote the instructions on how to remove the A/C from a Mazda 323GTX to make it look like the car never had A/C (for the GTX yahoo!group).

    Incidentally, on the GTX, if you remove the specifically listed A/C components, you have to change the harness as well. That is, you have to disconnect the A/C harness and install a harness connector this just a jumper that compensates for a component removed.

    I think a general rule that limited modification to wiring harnesses in Prod Category cars would be good. But, as I said, I mostly see downsides to modifying harnesses, so I don't know why anyone would do this. However, if a system that can be removed has its own separate harnesses, I think that it should be OK to remove the harnesses as well.

    So I think you need to go write a bulletin allowing removal of the rest of the airbag system ( and wiring if decided).
    I believe that you are correct and a clarification is needed. I'll talk to Hurst about this at Oregon.

    As to seat belt removal, in some states that is not alowed as SFi/FIA harness aren't DOT approved. Some cars have both sets. But 5.3.L.3 allows for comp harness' to be mounted in stock locations. This is so far from the "I wanna strip my wiring harness because I don't have a rear wiper " discussion it is beyond silly. But you better fix that rule too.
    My point was that there are some things that are currently "just allowed".

    We have cleaned up a lot of this kind of stuff in the rule book, but there is probably still a lot more.

    In the old days there was something in the book about removing crap to install safety equipment being allowed. I don't have time to see if that is still there or if you misplaced it..... I have a real job.
    Are you thinking Article 10.2.B.9? "Minor changes (such as a hole in the firewall, etc.),
    resulting from authorized modifications, are permissible." If that isn't what you are thinking of, the rule was misplaced before I started mucking with things.

    alan

  7. #35
    100 K left 2 205's Avatar
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    Talking rules...

    I have been known to punch a few holes in the rule book in the past and with that ability I can seen how difficult it is to write a rule that gets across the sprit of the rule as well as defining what is NOT legal. I have made some sugestions with this in mind and had minimal sucess.
    But there are glaring holes in the rule books as to state legality issues that need to be addressed before they bite us in the rear(figuatively of course!),and not to be addressed on open forums.

    But what do I know.......
    Todd
    #205

  8. #36
    straight at T
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosworth View Post
    Friction surface includes the swept area of the disks as well.
    Not when it is in the middle of two sentences about 'linings' that clearly refer to the brake pads. It refers to the friction surface of the pads.

    Adrian

  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by starion887 View Post
    Good one, Noah......well, keep on asking questions. There is a lot in any rules set that is based on history, historical rules, and some specific knowledge of the particular racing series. It takes a while to learn the ropes, and in many cases, to read and re-read rulesto notice and understand nuances. You'll get there.

    Regards, and good luck,
    Mark B.
    Not only that, but there have been (and probably still are) rules that really only existed because one individual* did something and another individual* said 'I'm writing a rule so that will never happen again'.

    *frequently, but by no means exclusively, with the initials JB (although in one case the initials of the individual in the first instance were AW - that rule has now been modified to be more sensible)

    Adrian
    Last edited by Adrian Wintle; 05-12-2009 at 10:25 AM.

  10. #38
    I am not here anymore AlanPerry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 205 View Post
    But there are glaring holes in the rule books as to state legality issues that need to be addressed before they bite us in the rear(figuatively of course!),and not to be addressed on open forums.

    But what do I know.......
    Please send me the glaring holes in the RA rule book (the PRR).

    alan
    [email protected]

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