Are todays spec WRC cars better than the legendary "Group B" cars of yesterday? - Page 4
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Thread: Are todays spec WRC cars better than the legendary "Group B" cars of yesterday?

  1. #31
    50 caution yump Cosworth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Pollard View Post
    Much talk of hp, but I understand that the current WRC cars have gobs of torque. Would a Grp B even win a drag race vs a WRC car? Especially when you add in the traction smarts of the modern diffs??
    Data! Lets see some torque curves!
    Probably not, drag race as in 400 meters you need torque, which WRC's have plenty with no lag along with quick shifting trannys and pimp diffs and launch control. Gr B, lighter weight, lots of power but with lag, unless we're talking about the S4 (s/c and turbo), but with primitive diffs and manual shifting... who knows!
    P. Ferreira

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  3. #32
    TG Dog/dogbox /LSD for any car ktibi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosworth View Post
    We all know that but he said: "the early Audis [..] had a little too much in common with the road car compared to their Peugeot and Lancia rivals".
    He's basically insinuating that the Peugeots and Lancias were more "done up" than the Audis.
    audi's weight balance was much closer to the street1 than all the other group B cars. It wasnt really a group B. Like the peugeot t16 or the lancia s4, ..rs200

    btw. the peugeut had two fuelcells, both placed under the driver and codriver seats,when I saw it i could not belive it

    WRC- is all about traction,get all the power to the wheels,the right amount of power in the right time/no man control

    GR B-power weight ratio...F1 on gravel/full man control=slower

  4. #33
    TG Dog/dogbox /LSD for any car ktibi's Avatar
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    audi s1 evo 0-100km/h 2.1 's on gravel,and still they had 250-260 km/h top speed

    WRC -s are mid ten cars, Gr B is low 9's

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  6. #34
    100 K left 2 205's Avatar
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    "I thought the Audi's main problem was that they always used a locked center diff, so they couldn't turn very well"

    They did use a locked diff(or open) till the intro of the short wheel base car...

    ", so they decided to lop a bunch out of the middle..."

    (which I can say changes the way the car acts ,it got rid of a lot of the under steer at lower speed and if you have the airo package of the S-1 the twitchyness that should be there is not...)

    Ever since I learned the reason why the Audis always seemed to be driven with an extreme push unless they got a good pendulum motion going, I wondered how good they'd be with modern diffs. And maybe put the wheelbase back to standard!

    (Almost all the 20 valve motored cars have a 6 speed trans with a thorsen center diff, that was developed during the group B era....)

    Sorry to contradict but I have done a lot of reserch and run both a 4 door 4000 and a short wheel base S-1.
    Todd Lengacher
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  7. #35

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    Supposedly, Andrew Hawkeswood of New Zealand has an S1 with spec-C drivetrain that he uses in historic events. I imagine it's quite a joy to drive.

  8. #36
    Squidix9
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    Jimmy McRae drove both Group B then he also drove a Group A Audi. He actually did better in Group A although he only drove the Group A Audi for a short while.

    The Group A Audi's used either a 200 or a 90 shell with Group B drivetrain and suspension. They used the appropriate engine for each shell.

    The early Group B transmission was a lockable stock box. The next iteration was a 5 speed box without a centre diff. Then came the 6 speed box without a centre diff. The last Group B box was a 6 speed with viscous coupling. The IMSA boxes had Torsen. However very few drivers used the 6 speed box, they tended to prefer the 5 speed box. At slow speed they don't maneuver very well but who cares?

    Working on them is just fine. If you look closely or have ever worked on one you'll know wat I mean. They were made to be serviced in the field. A transmission could be swapped in about 20 minutes. A whole rear subframe in about the same. Can't be too much better than that. They're actually pretty simple.

    As stated here the definition of better is whatever you make of it. One thing the Group B and Group A cars had was durability. They could take an awful lot of punishment and keep on going.

    I can imagine the new WRC cars feel great to drive, but the early cars do too. While some of it is racing from corner to corner they do allow you to drive the corners more than just flinging it or muscling it through. They track very well and feel like you're driving on rails. It's hard to overcome the feeling to let up, but if you stay on it and point it to where you want to go, it'll get you there and quite nicely at that.

    I'e never dirven a proper WRC car but I have driven a Pro Rally prepped Subaru and I'll take the Audi any day. Mind you it was just a privateer car. I
    and if I had a choice to make a big mistake in either car, I'd choose the Audi too. I didn't get the feeling that the Subaru would hold up and it just didn't feel as confident as the Audi. It was very fast however.

    All of these driving impressions of course are my own and biased of course. But let us not forget where all these WRC cars have their roots. It was Audi after all that started this way back when and in the day it was the hot stuff. And some day we'll look back and say that whatever is in the future shames the WRC cars of today.

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