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Hirschfeld - old time rally pics ...

72K views 119 replies 38 participants last post by  Lou Smarbles 
#1 ·
I was poking around for some pics of weird Yank rally cars for another thread (http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201337#post201337)
and ran across this site - http://dan.hirschfeld.googlepages.com/motorsportstuff

Go there and you'll find Dan has some pics from the 1979 NARRA 20 Stages Rally in Michigan - http://dan.hirschfeld.googlepages.com/someselectedpicturesfromthe1979narra20stagesrally

I've posted him an invite here but in doing so it dawned on me that THIS MONTH I celebrate 35 years of rallying! Yup, thirty-five years ago this month I embarked on my first rally contest, a benefit gimmick rally ("Who is the tree surgeon?" Answer was a rusty Dr. Pepper sign nailed to a dead oak tree.) in San Angelo, Texas! Talk about afflictions ... :eek:
 
#27 ·
Denise McMahon said:
Pat McMahon has one of the Arrows ...we are restoring.....also has his old dashboard in it that Pat fabricated long time ago...what goes around comes around.....it is amazing....it came from Lon Perterson's backyard....
I can help with this one!

The Hendrick Blok Arrow that was around in the late 70's was officially killed by Bill Gutzmann and myself in 1987 at a Glen Helen Rallysprint, a tie rod or axle failed in mid powerslide and we drove up a bank and rolled rather violently. Clint Heuring was the owner of the vehicle at the time and was rather dismayed at the result, but Clint took it all in stride, as usual. Bits and pieces of that car eventually found their way into Lon's Arrow(s). The engine was an actual Keith Black built unit that was very powerful. We never did anything with the Datsun Z rear suspension that I know of (used to brake axles a lot), but the Nissan Comp trans and triple disc clutch were also used later in Lon's car.
 
#28 ·
thanks

Thank you to the folks who set me straight on the chronology of the Fire Arrow. As I recall, controlling the rear end was the big problem in keeping the car under some type of control. I crewed that car for Clint on a lot of events.
Am currently living in Wisconsin and not hearing about any rally activity closer that northern Minnesota. Again, thanks to Denise and John.
 
#34 ·
Mad Mike said:
Just to rub it in, Kim sent me this:

Old guys tend to shrivel up. MM, when you get old like Kim you'll fit in a Statos too!
 
#39 ·
Hazztoys said:
I'm sure this is a dumb one....But..

"Were these cars ever sold in America..???"

Have a good day

David

Hazardous Toys inc
FIAT 131s were. And FIAT (or someone) shipped two Alitalia-liveried ex-works cars over, but if an actual Abarth 131 was ever sold here new I never heard of it. Of course, that doesn't mean it never happened ...
 
#40 ·
Mad Mike said:
FIAT 131s were. And FIAT (or someone) shipped two Alitalia-liveried ex-works cars over, but if an actual Abarth 131 was ever sold here new I never heard of it. Of course, that doesn't mean it never happened ...
The Fiat 131 was sold here in the states - under the name Brava.

But the Brava was a far cry from the 131 Abarth though. You can barely call the two the same car they were so different. Totally different drivetrain and suspension setup.

Tim
 
#41 ·
I actually owned a Fiat Brava 131. Bought it after the factory cars were here. If memory serves, it was the first new car my wife and I got after we were married. It really wasn't too bad and was sort of fun to drive when it was brand new, but it did wear out pretty quickly. Typical FIAT (Fix It All the Time) quality. It eventually got rear and front ended when my wife was in the right (or wrong) place to try to prevent a panel van from running into a step van at a traffic light. Kind of re-arranged the front and rear sheetmetal but didn't hurt the car mechanically at all. I think the insurance adjuster was amazed at how little a two-year old car was worth. It was a total from the insurance perspective and they wrote us a check but then said we could keep the car anyway. We replaced the headlights and taillights and continued to drive it for a while and then sold it to some poor sucker and replaced it with a new V-6 Capri that my wife rolled into a ditch on a TSD rally, another story for another time.

Kent Gardam
 
#42 ·
Rallycat66 said:
The Fiat 131 was sold here in the states - under the name Brava.

But the Brava was a far cry from the 131 Abarth though. You can barely call the two the same car they were so different. Totally different drivetrain and suspension setup.

Tim
Just like a 124 and a 124 Abarth (a la 1974 POR) could hardly be genetically linked.
 
#44 · (Edited)
Now THAT -



is a FIAT 124!!!

Interestingly enough, this line is in Hannu Mikkola's competition biography from 1984 (the last column listed his codrivers) -


Carson City Int'l (US) 1st Audi Quattro Doug Shepherd
And we wonder why Dougie is so fast! It always helps to see first-hand just what a rally car is capable of doing!

And I should add that it appears our old buddy Tim Winker is responsible for the website off which I linked the above pic - http://www.flyingfinns.com/
 
#45 ·
Mad Mike said:
Now THAT -



is a FIAT 124!!!

Interestingly enough, this line is in Hannu Mikkola's competition biography from 1984 (the last column listed his codrivers) -


Carson City Int'l (US) 1st Audi Quattro Doug Shepherd
And we wonder why Dougie is so fast! It always helps to see first-hand just what a rally is capable of doing!

And I should add that it appears our old buddy Tim Winker is responsible for the website off which I linked the above pic - http://www.flyingfinns.com/
Yeah. Doug had clinched the P championship, so he got to ride with Hannu, and Malcolm Wilson drove Doug's car with Linda (finished 4th OA, I think). This was the first rally I ever ran with JC. We DNF'd.
 
#47 ·
Have been enjoying comments generated by pics.

I'm the guy who snapped the photos that spurred Mike Halley to create this thread. Being that I'm not much in to contributing comments to forums of any subject (this being the first one I can recall) I've not been inclined to pop up here.

But, through a bit of encouragement from "Mad Mike" (who I hope is back in suitable transportation after his recent road accident described elsewhere in these forum pages) and my appreciation of the interest shown in this thread of my old rally pics, I thought I should surface to say Hi and provide a little comentary.

First, I go way back to this thread's first page and throw a "It was my mistake!" over to Jens. I was the guy who misidentified your Porsche 911 as Bruno Kreibich's in that Sunriser pic, not Mike (nice looking ride, by the way). After Mike pointed out to me in an e-mail that Bruno ran a VW Beetle in 1978 I sent him a new copy of the JPEG in question with a more generic file name.

After almost thirty years I did recall Mr. Kreibich entering a Porsche in the Sunriser but it turns out it was a year after that photo was taken. I was scanning the pics, naming the resulting JPEG files and uploading them to Mike on the fly so I was being a bit careless in my research and/or memory. Credit where credit is due, I really am sorry about that!

Regarding Dick Paddock's AMC (yup, AMC back then) Jeep Cherokee and Gremlin pics at the ORC Tulip 200: The Cherokee was Dick's everyday ride so I assume the Gremlin was on hand in case he hoplessly stuffed the Jeep :)

I believe it was Eric Anderson who commented about the Gremlin; Yeah, I saw Dick run that thing at an autocross put on one Sunday morning in a parking lot at the OSU stadium (the one in Ohio). If I recall correctly he had to peddle it off of the starting line least he boil off the rear tires! He had a pretty loud exhaust on it, too, so he must've awaken at least some kids in the North Campus residence halls. It was fun hearing the AMC small block V8 echoing off the side of the stadium, though!

From lurking and reading this thread over the last month and a half I've learned lots of good stuff, such as the details concerning Hendrik Block's Plymouth Arrow and what makes a FIAT xxx Abarth an Abarth. I also learned that a Lancia Stratos is a lot smaller that I thought!!! All good information mixed with some good humor as well.

To close this little disertation, all the photos on Mike's webpage in the "Hirschfeld Collection" were indeed snapped by me with a little Kodac pocket instamatic camera using color-negative film. The pocket instamatic line used what were termed "110" film cartridges. I'm thinking maybe the 110 designator meant the film was 10 millimeters wide because it was really small format stuff. I was probably lucky to get what detail I did in those pics.

While the pics are admittedly a bit blury, it's likely fortunate they scanned as well as they did considering the prints are nearly thirty years old on matt finish paper.

So that's it for this post. I suspect I forgot to mention something but this is long enough already.

Thanks!!!
 
#48 ·
Dan_H said:
I'm the guy who snapped the photos ...

So that's it for this post. I suspect I forgot to mention something but this is long enough already.

Thanks!!!
Thanks for scanning the pics! Interest in the old days, the emerging Historic class and 2WD in general seems to be swelling so finding treasure chests like your collection is always great.

A reminder - the Hirschfeld Collection, including a dozen 'new' Tulip 200 pics I may not have mentioned can be viewed here - http://www.realautosport.com/OldPics/Hirschfeld

Welcome to the forums Dan!
 
#49 ·
Not a Vega

Hey Mike,

If memory serves, I think that thing you have posted as a Vega on Hirschfield's page may actually be a mid-70s Chevy Monza.

See here: http://monza.homestead.com/mtcpics.html I especially like the 4x4 Town Coupe!

Kent
 
#50 ·
Foghorn said:
Hey Mike,

If memory serves, I think that thing you have posted as a Vega on Hirschfield's page may actually be a mid-70s Chevy Monza.

See here: http://monza.homestead.com/mtcpics.html I especially like the 4x4 Town Coupe!

Kent
The Monzas, the Starfires, the Pontiacs (whatever they were called) all sprung from the same awful chassis. I remember getting a phone call in the 70s that went something like, "Hey Mike. I'm thinking of rallying a Monza and wanted your opinion since you are rallying a Vega." I told him I thought the car would be hideously nose-heavy, handle even worse than mine and probably overheat a lot. The car was built anyway and I think my advice became prophetic. Said driver switched to 510s before all was said and done!
 
#51 ·
Mad Mike said:
Thanks for scanning the pics! Interest in the old days, the emerging Historic class and 2WD in general seems to be swelling so finding treasure chests like your collection is always great...

...Welcome to the forums Dan!
Thanks for the welcome, encouragement and good words regarding the pics, Mike!

Being one whose formative years occurred in the '70s I've most definitely heard some Vega stories. When Mike told me in an email message that he ran a Vega in his first Sunriser 30 years ago I mentioned remembering a couple of local guys running an early '60s Valiant beater (complete with bench seats) and finishing the event. The Vega must've been a nice ride compared to that :D

One of the things I forgot to mention in my first posting was the fact that my rally experience is that of working a whole bunch of events in the central Ohio area back in the mid to late '70s. I haven't had a lot of contact with rallying since then so my knowledge base is pretty limited. Mike knows all this stuff but I thought I'd put that out on the table.

What I can do is fill in any blanks regarding my old photos, though.

Dan...
 
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