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First timers: inspire me!

13K views 37 replies 26 participants last post by  sachilles 
#1 ·
Ok, I'm writing up some first timer advice and want to take it back... way back. What questions do you (or did you) have as a first timer? I'm talking the very basic stuff here, like:

How do I pay? Where is the entry form? Am I allowed to build my own rally car? Who builds cages?

I'm talking about from zero to getting to the start line at your first rally. Mostly I'm looking for a complete list of questions. Lots of the answers are easy... if you've been in the sport even a year. But obviously before you've been in the sport, you're not in the sport. ;) So, who remembers a topic they were mystified about on their way to becoming a rally racer?

It's a perfect way to spend the New Year... reminiscing about when you were just getting started. :D

Thanks guys. :cool:
Anders
 
#4 ·
As a first time co-driver, all the paper work related to getting to the start line was a complete mystery until I was immersed in. If you guys would video a couple of the new competitor meetings so folks could see them it would go a long way to alleviating the anxiety.
How do I use a time card?
If we break and need to withdraw, what paperwork should we expect to have to fill out and where and who do we give it to?
Can we re-enter if a mechanical causes us to miss a stage?
As my first time in a rally, was as a co-driver, I had a fair amount of competitive driving experience.....so the actual driving fast part(or helping my driver do that) was the part I was least nervous about. I was more paranoid about getting procedures right so we would not be penalized or cause issues for our fellow competitors.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Are there any competitors/workers near me that I can learn from? A self subscribed general location (not street specific) rally map would be pretty helpful for finding like minded individuals nearby (idea taken from the Cage Builders Google Map).

What is the difference between a Regional and National event? What and where should I enter?
What are the major phases of a rally (tech, recce, parc ferme, TC1, etc)?
What are we allowed to do before and after tech?
What should I bring with me in the car? (water, snacks, pencils, etc)
What is a driver's meeting and what happens if I miss it?
Why didn't I need to volunteer to learn the ropes before plunging headfirst into the trees? (alt title: Why should I learn from others mistakes?)

I'll come up with more later.

Edit- Great ideas above! Let's make it a touch clearer- I just pulled into my first rally with a car in tow- Where do I go and who do I see? In what order should I do the following:

unload car
park trailer (in service or in a field nearby?)
Meet with registration/competitor contacts
Set up service area (what is allowed/not allowed)
Who is allowed in Service areas? Do they need paperwork?
 
#6 ·
What is the minimum needed in the cars first aid kit? I would like to print a list and hand it to my mom and say here i need this for my rally car!! same for a spill kit.
 
#7 ·
I just bought a new STI and really want to rally it. How do I find sponsors to pay for my racing? Are there teams out there that hire drivers cause I am totally the best driver in my group of friends. (Those two questions dominate the majority of emails I have gotten from people interested in getting into rallying.)
 
#9 ·
If your car is in production, and you make a fix to the car that's illegal in service, can you change your class and can you keep running for seat time but not have the results count?
 
#11 ·
How do I best say thank you to event workers/organizers -- cash or gifts??? (sorry, but I just couldn't resist... Great idea Anders!!!)
 
#15 ·
When are the podium girls coming?

Why are the trees so damn magnetic?

Why is rally so expensive (seriously, maybe explain where/what the money goes toward, profit, paying off the mob, permits, etc.).

When I started, I wanted to know more about the technical parts, the time cards, etc. Even though I've driven in three rallies and co-drove once (first and last time, thank you), I still don't understand how the time cards work, leaving on "your minute," etc.

And lastly, why are rally drivers who drive antique BMWs so damn sexy?
 
#16 · (Edited)
X Mon™;426516 said:
I bribe them to come to an event with spare/take-off parts. Sorry we won't be seeing you this winter Dave.
1.) Spare parts ARE great worker "thank yous", lol! (Thanks again, Matt!) And so is floor space for low cost housing of volunteers -- goodly number of teams do this! Greg Healey once "bribed" me with one of his battle scarred Z-car front fenders for my "rally-cave" wall. (He was cleaning out his garage.)

2.) I am still working on getting to Sno-Drift, possibly with Houstin... But if you were referring to Wellsboro Winter Rally, yeah, bummer! Only a one year hiatus, though!
 
#17 ·
I have been reading the items in this thread and I though that I would share some of the questions I have had during my process. I figured since I am working through the first time experience currently that I might have some good questions for you to use. I have already read over and talked with some of you about the Build vs Buy and source out the roll cage or design it yourself.

Some of the current questions I have or have already had are…

• What the hell are these time cards and what do you mean I can’t be early ( the NCO I sat in on helped a lot with this question). I always try to be early for everything so this was useful information.
• I have put a lot of time and money into this car and/or rollcage. Do I have to wait for an event to get my logbook/roll cage inspection. Can I make arrangements ahead of time with a scrutineer to get this done so if I do need to make changes I can do them before the event.
• What items do I really need to take to enter the rally (rally computer, how many extras parts should I bring, what would be the best type of tow vehicle)
• What should I do before the race to prepare (better diet, checklists, budget during the rally)

There are more questions that have been rolling around in my mind the last couple months but it is getting late and they are slipping my mind. I will edit this post with more as they come to me but these ones stand out the most at the moment.

Alan Edwards
 
#23 ·
I have attended 4 rallies now, all the same event, but the first two as a volunteer out in the woods, and the second two as pit crew. First two years were pretty simple, meet at this point, follow that guy and do what he tells you. We sat by the side of the road with basic instructions and made it up as we went along.

Next rally we crewed for a very experienced driver sand co driver. Everything was explained well, we knew where we were going and got all questions answered and even fed really well. Up to the point where they didnt get back to the pits. With the help of a marshall/organizer, one of us set out into the dark to find them. We loaded in some fuel, basic tools and a spare tire, with no idea if we would find them or what state they or the car would be in. Turns out we missed each other and they beat us back to the pits.
Second crew experience was totally different, first time driver/codriver and no one had any clue what to do when. Very frustrating, and we found it hard to follow what to do when.

So, the questions I would put forward are more on the courtesy and unwritten rules side of it. Couple of examples, there was a guy needing gas in the pits so he could continue the rally. No problem, have this 5 gallon jug.. We didnt have a problem doing that. then the guy next to us came back into the pits all banged up and had people from all over jumping in to help out, something told us to help, but we didnt want to get the guy in trouble as we were told that we couldnt help another team with repairs? Another example, we were told to use a tarp to capture fuel when refueling, our driver/codriver were very clear about this, but not one other person we observed refueling did this..

So basically, what unwritten rules and expectations are placed on people in rallies? I have found it is one of the most friendly helpful sports I have seen so far. I just wonder what you can do without getting anyone in trouble.
 
#28 ·
So basically, what unwritten rules and expectations are placed on people in rallies? I have found it is one of the most friendly helpful sports I have seen so far. I just wonder what you can do without getting anyone in trouble.

I did heavy sweep at my first rally. Somewhere mid day one of the friendly frontrunners had a off road excursion on the stage prior. Now you are not supposed to have outside support, but a sage oldtimer suggested to me that if they "found" the Big F-in' Hammer that's always in my recovery kit along side the road next to their car, it might be useful getting their hood closed before they pulled into the control.


I think that's well within the spirit of rally.

Also, don't try to clean people driving lights w/o asking. i guess those $$$$ HIDs designed to be driven through hell and back are easily scratched...
 
#25 ·
My biggest fear getting on stage: absolutely no way to try it before you buy it. most any other sport including motorsport, drag racing, road racing, motorcycle racing etc. there are open track days, test 'n tune days, where you can find a friend and give it a whirl, I'm giving a flat track bike a spin this spring for $50. Any rental would cost more than I have in my "team". I was very worried about just how fast was bogey time. I lucked into codriving 0 at rally TN and got to see for myself about what speed would beat bogey, but before that it was a real concern that I would spend many thousands on a car, entry, equip etc just to get timebarred.
 
#33 ·
[/QUOTE] So basically, what unwritten rules and expectations are placed on people in rallies? I have found it is one of the most friendly helpful sports I have seen so far. I just wonder what you can do without getting anyone in trouble.[/QUOTE]

My experience is that you get the most help from the well known and the un-knowing!
It can pay to know the control crews for additional info on the current road conditions... hazards... or even a good pep talk. I have not had much luck asking for dust/snow minutes from these individuals however! The un-knowing are the most flexible early in the day...they seem to catch on quickly and will shortly know your tricks! Candy and promises of free beer only brings "thank you's" and smiles....never a dust minute!
As an example of newbie ignorance I can easily use myself... The first event I worked was SnoDrift 2005 I think, I was working start control and had one of the new style VW bugs roll up (many of you know who this savvy driver is) and ask me to shut the rear hatch. I quickly shut the hatch thinking they had forgot to shut it earlier as many of the crews had gotten out of their cars while waiting in line. The driver then asks me to shut it again, but really slam it hard this time. Thinking I must have not latched it properly, I really slammed it good! Then about 50lbs of slush and snow fell from beneath the car....hmmm lesson learned. No one else tried that trick that day.
 
#34 ·
Anders, are you preparing a list or some cliff notes on these first time issues somewhere? I haven't seen you chime in for a while here. I have one issue, it would about insurance - or insurances for the vehicles and for the rally itself.

I was surprised the guest driver in the TR7 had to pay for that bridge - thought insurance covered it.

And second, does my policy cover my modified car on transits or my service vehicle- (note what happened in Peru) as I am in an "organized speed event". Do I tell my insurance salesperson what I do?
 
#36 · (Edited)
Anders, are you preparing a list or some cliff notes on these first time issues somewhere?
Cliff notes? No. I'm writing a book. :)

I've decided that the reason that we often give people the advice "Oh, you really should team up with an experienced rally guy" is because there's no other way to learn all this stuff, given the poor job the sanctioning bodies have done preparing this kind of information for the racers.

I just took a look this morning, it's up to 44 pages (8.5x11 sized). I figure I might be halfway done, but maybe just a third. The reality of the time we live in is "if you can't google it, it doesn't exist". If "getting new people into the sport" is an important part of the mission of a sanctioning body, and it absolutely is for NRS, then we should be doing something to make it easier for people to learn about how to get into rally racing as a hobby. Because if we don't, their next search will be "how to go hang gliding" or something else that's also fun and expensive and then we've lost them. I don't think that having a friendly note that says "Be sure to find an experienced guy and hang out with them" cuts it these days.

It's not yet complete, but the "getting ready for your first rally" area is very fleshed out:
http://www.nasarallysport.com/main/Rally-University

You can find the link to Rally University right on the home page of NRS. At the top, because that's how important I think it is to cater to the new guys.

And keep the questions coming! A third of the topics so far I never would have thought of without help. :D

Cheers,
Anders
 
#35 ·
Can your crew go watch?


Technically no according to the rulebook... however if you're a newbie racing, let them do what they want. No one is going to file a protest. Just don't let them service or have contact without you outside of service.

The way I look at it, i'm dragging people hours away, to make them sit outside and not see any racing is just not cool in my opinion. Worst case senario you get penalties, but you're still racing and as a newbie thats all that matters.
 
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