Anyone know anything about Ford CF800 Trucks!?

[mattjohnston]

In my never-ending quest for a BIG CHEAP service truck..

There are LOTS of these Ex USPS Ford CF800 box trucks on ebay.

They usually go for ~$2,000 sometimes less (My price range)

I like diesel trucks, that are big, and can carry LOTS of tires and other sweet parts and stuff.

Only problem I see, is they are 33,000lb GVW so CDL is required, which is kinda a bummer..

http://i14.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/55/db/5a_3.JPG

[RichardM]

First, there are seat for only 2 or maybe 3 people. If you go to a rally some distance off, who has to ride in the back with the tires? My bet would be on the driver who bought such poor seating arrangements. :7

That is the advantage of the crew cab pickup, seating for at least 4.
Richard

[mattjohnston]

Well, I have never had an event where everyone came at the same time.

Usually my crew comes seperate in a different car (because of work, or timing, or whatever)

A pickup is too small IMO (and cutaway box vans are too expensive, and not as big and manly, and heavy duty)

[BenSlocum]

If I can remember right there's a loop hole in the CDL requirment, if you privatly own a vehical over the limit, and its not for business use, you don't need a CDL.

[Flyboy]

A few things to keep in mind:

Gearing. Is it highway geared or in-town geared? This can make a bid differance in miliage and what not. You don't want a truck that tops out at 65mph.

Miliage. Some of those older big diesels didn't get that great of miliage. Even the new Penske's we rent only get 6-8mpg.

Insurance. Your insurance company will not let you insure that as a personal vehicle. You will have to get a commercial policy on that, which is big bucks. Check on that before you buy (I didn't, doh!)

GVW/CDL laws. We got pulled over in Minnesota last summer in my 14ft cutaway van and asked for our CDL's. Apparently when going interstate the GVW limits change. It was confusing, and ultimately the guy let us off, but check into it.

Condition. Diesel turbos or new injectors are hideously expensive. You should be throwing money away on your rally car, not your service truck. Anything the gov't sells is usually completely wore out.

A couple other things to consider:

It is sometimes possible to register these trucks as RV's, thereby negating the insurance and licensing issues. That's what Jim Cox did. I dunno about the laws in your state, but in WI there is list of about 10 things, of which you must something like 6, in order to qualify as an RV. It's stuff like a toilet, stove, refridgerator, etc...

Another option is renting. We just picked up a Penske dealership at work. The trucks are almost new, well equipped, and the pricing isn't bad. Plus you get unlimited miliage on one way rentals. TAD used to rent trucks in Chicago, run them all over the country to a rally, and then return them over the border in Wisconsin. Alternatively you could try to work a deal with your local agent or the regional rep. It's possible to get considerably discounted rates if you talk to the right people. Considering how much it costs to keep it (Insurance, registration, etc...), and the little I use it, I'm seriously considering selling my truck and just renting the half dozen times a year I need it. I figured I could get some removeable backers made up for a few hundred bucks to got over the Penske signs and look nice, and weld up some removable racking and tire holders for the back.



Dennis Martin
dennis@mamotorsports.com
920-432-4845

[mattjohnston]

Good info,

Thanks Dennis..

I've looked at renting, but it always ended up being $1200+ for an event.

I dont think that was one-way though.

EDIT: One way with Penske is $1299 with the 15ft van.. Unlimited Mileage

If you use Penske Business rental, the truck rate is alot cheaper ($395/week for 18' Diesel van)

But it is also .22/mile ($374 From Grand Rapids to Bethel and back)

+ The mandatory insurance $190

So Total = $959

Which is still a bit more than I can afford, and half the cost of some bunk cheap diesel ebay truck. I also have a feeling, when I go to rent it, they will be all, bla bla your 22 and dont have a major credit card....

Looks like I'll be driving the rally car (again) to Maine!

[RichardM]

>Well, I have never had an event where everyone came at the
>same time.
>
>Usually my crew comes seperate in a different car (because of
>work, or timing, or whatever)
>
>A pickup is too small IMO (and cutaway box vans are too
>expensive, and not as big and manly, and heavy duty)
Unless you take several good mechanics, you don't need lots of spares and therefore should not need the big box truck. But it seems every one wants to bring at least 2 spares of every thing they might break. I try to bring only spares that I can replace quickly. And since I am a slow mechanic (if indeed I can even be classified as a mechanic) I don't need lots of spares. But I do need room for lots of beer. :+

[mattjohnston]

True, but I have lots of tires, Tires take up lots of room... and then my ezup, and then my spares and so on. If Im gonna spend the $$ to buy a dedicated tow rig, im gonna do it right. It doesnt need to be my daily driver, it can sit around and look sweet.

+ Big trucks, are cheaper than crappy pickups anyway, and I dont have to worry about crappy lightweight brakes failing in Pennsylvania, and blazin through stop signs and intersections with the horn honkin and closing my eyes.

Then I look cooler, my crew has a place to hangout, and I get more chickkies.

My crew can change my gearbox in a service pretty easily (whole motor in an hour for sure)

(Not that I carry a motor as a spare, but whatever)

[Don Kennedy]

Buy a used Ford E350 window van for $2000-$3000 and It will do you everything you really need (unless you think you're big time) :P

[mattjohnston]

>Buy a used Ford E350 window van for $2000-$3000 and It will
>do you everything you really need (unless you think you're big
>time) :P

Naw, I had one. It sucked, and I almost died in it 3-4 times.

I sold it to pay for my STPR entry.

[Flyboy]

>Good info,
>
>Thanks Dennis..
>
>I've looked at renting, but it always ended up being $1200+
>for an event.
>
>I dont think that was one-way though.
>
>EDIT: One way with Penske is $1299 with the 15ft van..
>Unlimited Mileage
>
>If you use Penske Business rental, the truck rate is alot
>cheaper ($395/week for 18' Diesel van)
>
>But it is also .22/mile ($374 From Grand Rapids to Bethel and
>back)
>
>+ The mandatory insurance $190
>
>So Total = $959
>
>Which is still a bit more than I can afford, and half the cost
>of some bunk cheap diesel ebay truck. I also have a feeling,
>when I go to rent it, they will be all, bla bla your 22 and
>dont have a major credit card....

That's why you need to talk to the agent, or better yet the area rep. I can possibly help out with that if you want. But anyways, Penske can make these rates way better. The trick is to find someone who "gets it" or is an enthusiest. It's not as hard as you may think. How do you rally without a credit card? Get one. You can rent without it, but it's easier with. Age isn't an issue. Half the people that use our trucks are going to college.

In the end maybe renting isn't the answer, but like anything else it doesn't hurt to try.

BTW, you're hard core. If I drove my car to the event, there is no way I'd be in physical shape to rally it.


Dennis Martin
dennis@mamotorsports.com
920-432-4845

[BenSlocum]

If you need a ride to maine, offer still stands.

[mattjohnston]

>If you need a ride to maine, offer still stands.

I do, I was just about to e-mail you.

[RichardM]

It takes me so long to change tires, I don't take more than 6 to 10. Most of those go on the trailer rack with only about 4 or 6 going into the pickup depending on the weather forecast.

Brakes are highly overrated in my opinion. The master cylinder went out on my pickup at the Eisenhower tunnel on the way back from COG last September. I just cranked up the trailer brakes and drove a little more cautiously.

I'd like to pickup chickies too but since I dislocated a shoulder a couple of years ago, it is a little harder to do. And my wife tends to object for some reason.

Good luck on finding a vehicle that works for you.

[Lancia037Rally]

My preference is Mercedes Benz service vehicles so much that I bought two. Roomy enough for all my crew and spares and very comfy.

Enjoy pic of us getting ready to service at Pike's Peak summit parking lot.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/803000-803999/803556_39_full.jpg

I work for Penske at one of his dealerships. If you want to try to get a deal on truck rental thru Penske for racing, there is some links to contact info at

http://www.penskeracing.com/index.asp

[Mad Mike]

>Enjoy pic of us getting ready to service at Pike's Peak summit
>parking lot.
>http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/803000-803999/803556_39_full.jpg

HEY!! Lurch didn't register two service vehicles!

Oh, sorry ... I took my steward hat off almost two weeks ago ...

;-)

Halley ...
BBBBB (Bring Back Big Bend Bash)
http://www.realautosport.com

[Bruce]

>GVW/CDL laws. We got pulled over in Minnesota last summer in
>my 14ft cutaway van and asked for our CDL's. Apparently when
>going interstate the GVW limits change. It was confusing, and
>ultimately the guy let us off, but check into it.
>

Dennis makes a lot of good points. I've recently done some research on driving big trucks on interstate runs...due to the Rally America truck's GVWR going up...and, while not an expert, I can give you (or anybody else that's interested) some guidance. Email me off this thread...which is really about the trucks themselves...if you have questions.

Bruce

[Bob Olson]

I'm on the road right now but I have the link at home for the MN state statutes that make it an RV. You have to have 4 of 6 categories and it's pretty straightforward.

I think you should count on getting pulled over sooner or later if it at all looks commercial, and if you don't win the argument next to the highway it's 6 months dealing with the particular county court you got pulled over in (in my experience). We got ticketed for being a commercial vehicle even though none of the rules applied, the truck got impounded for a day, and after 6 months of dinking around we settled for $100 and the agreement not to do wrong for a period of one year what we didn't do wrong in the first place. I'm thinking we got pulled over in the same county Dennis did - I've heard they get a lot of business this way.

If you fit the rules and you're gonna license it as an RV, make sure it looks like an RV or you might still have problems. If you don't fit the RV rules I wouldn't try to get away with it - the fines are pretty steep, and it's a pretty good source of revenue for some local governments...

[Flyboy]

>I think you should count on getting pulled over sooner or
>later if it at all looks commercial, and if you don't win the
>argument next to the highway it's 6 months dealing with the
>particular county court you got pulled over in (in my
>experience). We got ticketed for being a commercial vehicle
>even though none of the rules applied, the truck got impounded
>for a day, and after 6 months of dinking around we settled for
>$100 and the agreement not to do wrong for a period of one
>year what we didn't do wrong in the first place. I'm thinking
>we got pulled over in the same county Dennis did - I've heard
>they get a lot of business this way.
>

You guys had to be there, it was hilarious. Ten miles out of Bemidji, and the trailer lights crapped out, which is why we got nabbed. The guy asks for my log book and health card. I start to dig out the log book for the Evo, while trying determine what my health card consisted of. Then he asks where we came from, and how long it took. After three or four minutes of this it became apparent to both of us that neither of us knew what the other was talking about. When it became clear the he felt I needed a CDL, a polite argument ensued. His basic premise was that since there was a profit potential, racing was a commercial venture, hence I needed a CDL. I tried explaining that there was no profit potential for this race. Here's how it went:

Cop: What about the purse?
Me: There is no purse.
Cop: You mean you spend all this time and money for no purse?
Me: Yup.
Cop: Why?
Me: Fame and Glory.
The cop thinks for a minute...
Cop: What about the sponsors on the car?
Me: While one of those is me, and the other is my codriver. We pay out of own pockets and plug our businesses anyways.
The cop thinks for a long while....
Cop: Okay, if you win, do you get a tropy?
Me: Yeah, I think so.
Cop: Ahah! That's Profit! (I'm not kidding, he actually said this.)

Long story short, he let us off with a warning, and even let us continue to Bemidji without trailer lights. So ultimately I can't complain because he gave us the benefit of the doubt. Later I consulted one of my crew who happens to be a shipping agent for Home Depot, and he laughed, and then rattled off the rules and regs. I don't remember the specifics, but we were legal.

Bottom line is check the regs for the feds and any states you go through. In fact, someone should do this and archive here so the next guy doesn't have to do it all over. I still think though that the real hurdle will be insurance.

Dennis Martin
dennis@mamotorsports.com
920-432-4845

[Bruce]

>
>Bottom line is check the regs for the feds and any states you
>go through. In fact, someone should do this and archive here
>so the next guy doesn't have to do it all over. I still think
>though that the real hurdle will be insurance.

I could post a digest of my research here, but as Dennis and Bob found out, it's what the cop who stops you BELIEVES that counts. For example, you don't need a CDL to drive anything under 26,000 lb. in Minnesota...and I'm pretty sure Dennis' rig is under that...but the cop believed otherwise.

The other thing is that you typically won't be stopped unless you do something wrong...like your taillights are out. So get a DOT physical for every driver (about $60 every two years for most folks), keep a log (they're a couple of bucks at truck stops), follow the on duty rules and STOP AT WEIGH STATIONS...keep as low a profile as possible.

If Dennis had been able to produce a driver's log and DOT card, even the friendly argument might not have ensued.

BTW, DOT's definition of a commercial vehicle is any vehicle or combination over 10,000 lb. rated or actual weight...unless it's completely privately owned and has NO commercial signage ANYWHERE on it.

Rally folks have been flying under the radar for a long time...as have the road racers and others.

Bruce