Old rally pix

[Eric_Anderson]

It's time to delurk (probably kinda like delicing or deicing or debunking or whatever).

While cleaning out old file cabinets during the last week, I fired up both the print and film/slide scanners and have been busily converting old rally stuff to electronic format for your enjoyment.

The goodies are here:

http://www.futurethru.com/itemlist.asp?sqltype=rally&pagestyle=default

if that wraps, go to www.futurethru.com, click on articles and then performance rally.

Stuff you'll find up there now includes part of the 1955 Canadian Winter rule book, pix of John & Vicki in the 911, Rod Millen's RX-7, Guy Light, Scott Harvey/Wayne Zitkus, Andrew Cowan, Doug Shepard, Jim Walker, etc. Most of these are from the mid-70s with a couple from the early '70s, and a few newer.

Stuff that's on the way: a scan of the 1955 routebook for the Great American Mountain Rally, which I believe to be the very first FIA sanctioned rally in the U.S. (and maybe North America? and it even had a works entry and was sponsored by the American Automobile Association of all things), some excepts from a 1950s-era Watkins Glen Tour and Trial (You'll love this, you didn't reset penality time at each control. If you were a minute behind at one control, you had to make that minute up before the next control), and more photos.

I found a bunch of old negatives and slides from Rideau Lakes, Canadian Winter, POR, Sunriser, Sno*Drift and others, but the problem now is that I'm starting to get into photos that I don't recognize or remember who they are.

As way of introduction, I did what I think was the first U.S./Canadian book about the sport entitled Performance Rallying, published back in 1975, wrote a bunch of magazine pieces along the way, was co-clerk of course for Sunriser for a year and codrove in Datsun 510 (didn't everyone?) and a Fiat 124.

If you find errors, omissions or things to add, let me know. Where possible, I tried to give a little description of that the photo was about for those who weren't around back then. Most of this stuff was assembled from sketchy notes and a faulty memory.

Enjoy.


Eric Anderson

[DonSwier]

>While cleaning out old file cabinets during the last week, I
>fired up both the print and film/slide scanners and have
>been busily converting old rally stuff to electronic format
>for your enjoyment.


Cool! Just like unwrapping Christmas gifts a few days after the holiday.
:)
Thanks!

[Foghorn]

Thanks Eric, great memories, pics and comments. It takes me back. Keep 'em coming.

Kent Gardam

[Crashton]

I'm delurking here myself.

Thank you for the great memories Eric. I will be seeing Eric Jones tonight. I can't wait to tease him a bit about the press he's receiving 29 years after the fact.;-) He is still at it. He & Harry Ward went to England to run LeJog this year in his newly purchased Cortina rally car.

The picture that you identify as Rod Millen getting help from spectators is actually John Woolf & Grant Whittaker. As I remember
that picture was taken on the Cooper Hollow stage of the 81 Sunriser at the spectator point. It was a downhill into an acute left. When John popped over the crest & hit the brakes a rotor broke causing the car to pitch to the right into the bushes. He would've been sunk if there hadn't been all those spectators to push & pull. He still managed to finish 3rd behind Millen & Woodner. The reason I know so much about this is that I am the large unit standing next to the course arrow burning up film in my Nikon.;-)

Here's a link to the 81 Sunriser press release. >> http://www.rallyracingnews.com/scca/rally/news1081.html

Eric when you get some more photos scanned in please post them. I really enjoy seeing stuff from the olden days.

Edit >> Eric that is a great photo. I now have to find mine so I can
try to see if I have a picture of you burning film.;-)

Thanks again.

Chuck Ashton

[Andrew Comrie Picard]

Wow. 2200km in two days in February of 1955. My MGTF would have been a relatively modern (at least newly-manufactured) entrant.

The performance photos are fantastic. Thanks. Keep them coming!

ACP
www.musketeerracing.com
Flirting with the laws of physics.

[John Vanlandingham]

Cool. And black and white.....ahhhhhhh.
And actual action shots.

Please keep it up.


John Vanlandingham
Seattle, WA. 98168

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

[Crashton]

Me again. Guess I really have delurked.

The picture of Bruno looks like it was taken at Cooper Hollow on the 81 Sunriser also. It was taken looking back at the turn Woolf went off on. As I remember my heart rate went up a bit. Another great photo. I am the guy on the far right wearing a hat.;-)

Chuck Ashton

[Andy M]

Cool.. great pics.

[Rich Smith]

Wow!

Thanks Eric! Great shots! Priceless!

Rich Smith

[Doug Woods]

>I found a bunch of old negatives and slides from Rideau
>Lakes, Canadian Winter, POR, Sunriser, Sno*Drift and others,
>but the problem now is that I'm starting to get into photos
>that I don't recognize or remember who they are.

Eric:

Please post all of these even if you don't know who they are. Just number them and we can have a gigantic new year's rally quiz. I am sure all the old farts here will be able to help out with the identification.

BTW, the black and white photos certainly seem to convey what rallying was like then, more so than colour photos.

I have a bunch of photos that I should also post.

Thanks for your efforts.

Doug Woods

[Mad Mike]

I love these old shots too! RealAutoSport.com has become a fair repository for such:

http://www.realautosport.com/Harvey/Weiman/Wienman/Image100.jpg

Check out:

http://www.realautosport.com/Harvey/harvey.html

and:

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/oldtimer.html

and even:

http://www.realautosport.com/Harvey/Weiman/Wienman/weinman.htm

Thanks to VirtualMovingTarget Racing's support of www.realautosport.com, we have room to host more pics and even videos of the old stuff if you have some but have no where to host them. OM me if this is of interest ...

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com

[Eric_Anderson]

I've added some more stuff and fixed some things as folks have provided more info.

http://www.futurethru.com/itemlist.asp?sqltype=rally&pagestyle=default

I've set the software so the documents page will always be first, with the newest additions at the top of the list.

The first page of routebook for the 1954 Great American Mountain Rally is now up. It's on the historical documents page. Did you know that Walter Cronkite ran the 1953 event? I'll bet not. I dug out some details about the event as well. There's also an excerpt of the 1955 Watkins Glen Tour.

I also added a copy of the cover of Performance Rallying, and typed in part of Gene Henderson's stage tour.

I've pretty well ended with the Sunriser photos, and am working through the Canadian Winter stuff.

Chuck Ashton commented on the effect that Bruno's oversteer on spectators, so I dug out the second picture of the sequence. In the first photo, there's spectators, in the second photo, none.

Two questions:

Is there any interest in the time schedule from the 1974 POR? I found both the '73 and '74 route books.

If I set it up so that anyone else could easily add photos and stories without having to know HTML or anything like that, would there be any interest?

Enjoy.

[Doug Woods]

Eric:

I particularly like the "essence of rallying" photo from the Canadian Winter Rally. It is worth remembering that the rally was essentially 1500 miles of roads exactly like that shown in the photo.

Notice that several cars have gone off the road at the corner and that the snow banks are very low. Some years, the snow banks were six feet high and bouncing the car off the bank on the exit of a corner was an accepted cornering technique. As I recall, our Toyota Corolla would finish the event with the rear quarter panels well "modified".

Keep posting the photos!

Doug Woods

P.S. The Walker/Palmer photo is from the POR (notice to Total sponsorship on the door number).

[Steve McKelvie]

Eric,
I'm rather new to participating in the sport and just recently acquired a copy of your book, Performance Rallying. I'm surprised how many events there were and the number in places, like Nova Scotia, were events are no longer held.
Thanks for the interesting read.

Steve McKelvie

[Bee Driver]

Great photos.

I really like the 'essence of rallying' with the divits in the snow banks.

How do I get to page 2 and on. I'm computor illiterate and have a web tv. I tried adding a 2 to the url but got nothing.

I also have a bunch of slides from the early 70s.
'73 Thunderbird Gordini's Randy Black 510 MORE Opels 911's 96's RX 3's

and alot from NW Rallys
and some from Olympus

Thanx for the memories.
Dick Fuhrman

[Eric_Anderson]

>How do I get to page 2 and on. I'm computor illiterate and
>have a web tv. I tried adding a 2 to the url but got
>nothing.


http://www.futurethru.com/itemlist.asp?sqltype=rally&pagestyle=default&curpage=2


There should be a Next button at the bottom of the page. But, if not, paste in the above URL all on one line. Chnage curpage=2 to curpage=3 for the third page.

[Eric_Anderson]

>the bank on the exit of a corner was an accepted cornering
>technique. As I recall, our Toyota Corolla would finish the
>event with the rear quarter panels well "modified".


I have some Walter/Doug photos coming. I think they show such "modifications!

[Mad Mike]

>I've added some more stuff and fixed some things as folks
>have provided more info.

Excellent! Thanks again.

RE: The Fort Worth Rabbit Team. An F-Square Rally Team Rabbit was the subject for one of the posters produced and sold by the folks at Rallye Magazine (dashing through the snow, of all things for Tejas-based rally cars to be doing) back in the 70s. I've recently gotten back in touch with John Powers (the guy driving the Rallye Magazine Chevette on one of my vintage pics pages) and he tells me he still owns the original artwork used for those posters. If there were enough interest to make a printing run worthwhile we could generate another batch of them. A Stratos, Porsche 911, a Rabbit and ... uhhhh ... what was the other one?

And speaking of the late Dick Fitzgerald, he was solely responsible for THE most memorable moment of my then-fiance's first trip to a stage rally. Mary Jane and I were sitting at a small second-floor table at The Library finishing off a pizza and a pitcher in 1985 when this furry face appeared and planted a wet one square on my lips! MJ quickly said, "And who is THIS?" ;-) Dick was a piece of work, that's for sure!

>Enjoy.

Done deal! Thanks!!!

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com

[Doug Woods]

As I find some of my old rally photos, I have been scanning them. I have put some on Yahoo at:

http://ca.photos.yahoo.com/bc/rallydoug/lst?.dir=

If anyone out there has any photos of Walter Boyce and I, please send them to me or let me know where they are hosted.

Thanks,

Doug Woods

[geralds34]

Doug:

The album is empty.

/Gerald

[Doug Woods]

>Doug:
>
>The album is empty.

Gerald:

Thanks. I had left the album settings at private instead of public. Should work now. I used your photo - looks good.

Doug Woods

[Crashton]

Eric that sounds great! I'd love to be able to see those old POR route books. The great American mountain rally holds much interest for me as well.

I would be more than happy to contribute old rally photos to your sight. I know zip about HTML so the offer to set it up for us digitally challenged would be great. Is there a specific size the photo's would need to be?

Eric Jones & Mark Hardymon said to say hello to you. I saw them both
on new years eve. Eric said he has been trying to track you down. He said he lost track of you in Piqua. If you would like to you can e-mail me your phone number so that I can give it to Eric so he can talk with you. My e-mail is in my profile.

Very nice photos that you've added to your site. The one from the Canadian winter rally really tells the story.

The one of Eric Jones at the 81 Sunriser was also at Cooper Hollow. That was a great place to spectate. Tawn is quite a good photographer.

Thanks again.

Chuck Ashton

[Eric_Anderson]

There are 10 more images up on the site, mostly from Canadian Winter. Doug is even in three of them.

[Doug Woods]

>There are 10 more images up on the site, mostly from
>Canadian Winter. Doug is even in three of them.

Eric:

Keep the photos coming!

In the photo from the Rideau Lakes with John Buffum in his Escort, I am not with Walter. The co-driver was Stuart Gray from England (they won the rally). I was the Rallymaster and was long gone in the course opening car when this photo was taken!

Doug Woods

[Bee Driver]

Doing the URL thing works.

thanks

RCF

[Lorne Trezise]

Excellent collection!

[awesome_rogergibson]

awesome_rogergibson

Dick Fitzgerald was always colorful. Believe it was on the 85 POR when all the rest of us Texas folks went home after the rally and Dick got to stay a while. The police found a pistol
in the Saab. Evidently the authorities in MI did not have the same rules about guns in 85 as Texas. None.

Texas now has a permit to carry.

awesome roger gibson
Terlingua, TX

[John Vanos]

Doug, just a question...Where exactly did the rally run out to? I think it started in Smith falls, ya? so where did it go?

[Eric_Anderson]

I posted another dozen or so new pictures tonight. These are mostly from the 1975 Marathon 400. Drivers (and cars) I could identify include: Tom Tolles, Scott Harvey, John Buffum, Bob Hourihan, John Smiskol, Eric Jones, Guy Light and me (I'm pretty good at identifying me. Mostly!).

There are another half dozen shots that I don't know who they are. At least a couple of them should be identifiable by someone here.

Enjoy!

[Foghorn]

Eric,

I recognize the blue BMW 2002 on the first page as Bob Schneider and Bill Bauman of Toledo. Thought for a second the Z-car might be mine but mine never quite looked like that. I don't remember whose that might have been, unless possibly John Kelly (?) from Kentucky? You've gotta love the white walls though.

Kent Gardam

[Eric_Anderson]

>Eric,
>
>I recognize the blue BMW 2002 on the first page as Bob
>Scneider and Bill Bauman of Toledo. Thought for a second
>the Z-car might be mine but mine never quite looked like
>that. I don't remember whose that might have been, unless
>possibly John Kelly (?) from Kentucky? You've gotta love
>the white walls though.
>


Kent,

Did you run Marathon? Do you remember? I have a bunch of negs and slides from there and these are in pretty good shape. If you think you were there, I might have a pix. Describe the car.

The progression of the negatives and slides has been interesting. I had forgotten how difficult rally photography was back in the '70s, and how much things have progressed.

Most events ran at night, often in miserable locations and with miserable weather. Daylight and spectator stages were rare. And even then, they weren't real rallying (I'm thinking here of the Belle Island stage in Detroit and the Alma dump.)

The only real film option was Tri-X (Ilford was not a big presence in the U.S. at this point) and you could only push Tri-X to 800 or maybe 1600 without having it completely fall apart. I don't remember ever pushing Tri-X past 800 because the results were so bad.

For color slides -- needed, I always wanted to sell the magazine cover which is where the real money was in freelance writing -- the situation was worse. The fastest slide film was slow, and the exposure latitude was narrow. It wasn't unusual to shoot a whole roll of slide film and only have one or two decent shots. Slide film was also expensive to buy and expensive to have processed.

Some time around 1975, I invested in two big Spiratone flashes. These could practically light up a football field. The flashes weren't expensive (under $50, but that was still a lot in 1975) but the batteries were outrageous. They were 67.5 volts apiece, and the battery pack took four of them and could power two flashes at once. The batteries also cost about $10 each and a set of four might last one or two events. They were not recharageable.

The downside of those flashes is that a photographer had to be really careful where you were standing in relationship to the driver. Fire one of those suckers off while the driver was looking right at it, and the driver was blind for a week. This, of course, isn't really too good if the car happened to be going about 70 mph in the middle of a twisty forest road.

One of the funniest things I ever witnessed was when Mike Creech and I were running service for Rich and Linda Merritt in a rally out of Huntsville, Ala. I don't remember the name of the event. Joe Maugans was there and working service too, probably for Eric Jones.

Long about 3 a.m. Joe was frustrated that the service schedule wasn't allowing for much spectating, and he wasn't getting any good shots.

So he made up his mind that he was going to start taking pictures from across the road of cars as they came into the service area.

For those reading this who weren't around the in '70s, most of the rallies didn't have service parks the way you do today. Service crews were constantly on the move, and service areas were usually a wide spot along side the road, often a state highway.

Anyway, for Joe the other side of the road quickly became the centerline, and this was working OK. He'd snap a picture of the car coming down the highway and jump out of the way.

Mike and I were watching this from the back of our service vehicle a couple of vehicles down the service area and I remember we had a bet as to how soon something was going to happen.

Sure enough, about four or five cars after coming up with this scheme Joe happened to snap a picture of something that wasn't a rally car, but rather a sheriff's deputy who immediately put on the flashing lights. I think Joe ran halfway to Texas before slowing down. The deputy was pretty cool, but allowed as how standing in the middle of the road taking pictures probably was not a good idea.

Anyway, the earlier '70s stuff has thin, in some cases almost unprintable, negatives. The film scanner I'm using won't pick up detail in some of the negs, although you can see it with a loupe. The later stuff, ala Marathon 400, has better exposure, but often isn't taken from quite as good of an angle.

The Hourihan/Smiskol shots from Marathon illustrates this. The better place to have been would have been on the right side of the car. But the driver would have been looking right into the flash, so we didn't do that. If you look at the shot, you'll see that we're getting a ton of light all the way across a fairly wide stretch of road.

Today, of course, film speeds are better. Grain structure is better, and Photoshop can solve a lot of problems.

That's a lot of babbling to say that if you think you were at Marathon, describe the car and I'll see if I can find you.

[Foghorn]

Okay, for a convoluted question here's a convoluted answer. Did I run Marathon 400 in 1975? Well, probably. I did run the Marathon 400 at least once. Which year(s)? I'm no longer positive. (I also remember running the Sunoco 400 out of Traverse City). Which car? I'm no longer positive. We progressed (?) somewhere in that time frame from our 510 (ex-Smiskol car) to our 240Z. Can't remember exactly when that occurred though. The 510 ended up the same green as Eric's cars (no black hood though). The Z was blue with red eyebrows over the wheel arches and then it was carnival orange with a black hood (Much like the unidentified Z in your pics but I don't remember having an antenna at the top of the rear hatch like the one pictured). I'm foggy on when the color change took place too. How's that for a rock solid old fart memory?

On the issues of flashes in driver's eyes: My buddy and I were servicing once for Smiskol's 510 at Canadian Winter ('73 I think) and were using my 510. We were be-bopping down the road from one service point to another on what turned out to be a transit on the rally route. The transits were only marginally slower than the stages. We crested a yump when there was a sudden brilliant flash from dead ahead. Seems someone was out taking pics of rally cars on that road and caught a service crew by mistake. Guess you can't blame them since it was a rally prepped 510 but it sure shocked the hell out of me when I wasn't expecting it.

Kent Gardam

[Charlie KA8OQF]

>Eric,
>
>I recognize the blue BMW 2002 on the first page as Bob
>Scneider and Bill Bauman of Toledo. Thought for a second
>the Z-car might be mine but mine never quite looked like
>that. I don't remember whose that might have been, unless
>possibly John Kelly (?) from Kentucky? You've gotta love
>the white walls though.
>
>Kent Gardam

Those names from the Beemer ring a bell. I do believe I have the shortwave radio out of that car...I remember oohing and aahing over it in the Chillicothe hills in the late 70's...made 'em promise that if they ever ditched the car, they'd save the radio for me. They did...and it still works!

Charlie KA8OQF

[Adrian Wintle]

>Doug, just a question...Where exactly did the rally run out
>to? I think it started in Smith falls, ya? so where did it
>go?

The '74 Rideau Lakes (the World Championship round) went over as far as Bancroft (running stages that are now staples in the Tall Pines) and came back via Desert Lake (south of Sharbot Lake and spitting distance from my parent's cottage).

Adrian

[Mad Mike]

>Eric,
>
>You've gotta love
>the white walls though.
>
>Kent Gardam

Anyone who ran Cooper Weathermasters in the old days will likely recall that running with the whitewallls out was a typical consequence of leaving your wheels at the local tire store to have them mounted. Even with a specific request to have the black walls out the tires tended to come home the other way and, of course, it was always too late to rectify the problem before rally time.

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com

[Paul Jaeger]

>>Eric,
>>
>>You've gotta love
>>the white walls though.
>>
>>Kent Gardam
>
>Anyone who ran Cooper Weathermasters in the old days will
>likely recall that running with the whitewallls out was a
>typical consequence of leaving your wheels at the local tire
>store to have them mounted. Even with a specific request to
>have the black walls out the tires tended to come home the
>other way and, of course, it was always too late to rectify
>the problem before rally time.
>
>Halley ...
>http://www.realautosport.com
I beleave the Red 240Z was Daryl Holder out of Huntsville, Alabama. They ran a MGB about 1972 in the POR and other events and then moved up to the Z. They deliberately had the Coopers mounted that way. The Z's last rally was on one of the Happiness is Sunrise rallies (maybe 75 or 76) They rolled the car badly somewhere north of Renova. They didn't have a service crew and I volunteered to drive them out to try to retrieve the car. When I left them they were getting a tow truck to get it out of the woods and arranging to fly home.


Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!

[Mad Mike]

>I beleave the Red 240Z was Daryl Holder out of Huntsville,
>Alabama. They ran a MGB about 1972 in the POR and other
>events and then moved up to the Z. They deliberately had
>the Coopers mounted that way.
<snip>
>Paul Jaeger
>PRIMO Stage Crews
>For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!

I was always nervous any time I took to a stage with white walls showing since that always increased your chances of a rollover!!!

:+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+ :+

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com

[Eric_Anderson]

>
>Anyone who ran Cooper Weathermasters in the old days will



At one point, someone (I don't remember who, but Eric Jones, maybe, it sounds like something he might do) carefully cut apart the Cooper tire decals and was running Copper Tires.

And someone (Jones again maybe?) at one point was running Pooper Tires.

Bob Edds was not amused.

I don't know if I have this on film, but I'll keep an eye out for it.

[Crashton]

That sounds like Eric Jones all right. He also took some Red Roof Stickers & instead of saying Sleep Cheap they said Leap Sheep.:-)

Chuck Ashton

[Mad Mike]

When I returned to rallysport with the Stage Fright Rallye Team RallyeTruck I saw no reason to spend huge bucks on purpose-built rally tires when I had no idea how I might stack up after a dozen years of rally inactivity, so I visited Danny's Auto & Tire in Mannford, Oklahoma and went with what I knew - Coopers! They weren't Weathermasters and they weren't bias plies, but they turned out to be competent, reasonably-priced tires that carried a road hazard guarantee and gave me precious little trouble! I'm still running Coopers on the SORT ...

Mad Mike on Coopers in 1978:

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/Vega/sunr78-1.jpg

Mad Mike on Coopers in 1998 (sort of):

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/pbn99/32799-A2.jpg

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com

[Charlie KA8OQF]

>
>>
>>Anyone who ran Cooper Weathermasters in the old days will
>
>
>
>At one point, someone (I don't remember who, but Eric Jones,
>maybe, it sounds like something he might do) carefully cut
>apart the Cooper tire decals and was running Copper Tires.
>
>And someone (Jones again maybe?) at one point was running
>Pooper Tires.
>
>Bob Edds was not amused.
>
>I don't know if I have this on film, but I'll keep an eye
>out for it.

And of course, let us not forget those brave individuals whose names were emblazoned on the doors of those green Datsuns...Rex Karrs, Mogen David, U.G. Rection...(yes, I fell for it at the '75 POR, in the parking lot of the multi-level Sands Speedway first stage)...

And for all those real old timers out there, extraspecial bonus points if you can reel off the license numbers of Eric's rally car and service vehicle from those daze...

[Foghorn]

He still has the plates in his name: TRUCK on his Suburban and DATSUN but it's on some other furrin thang. Another one of his navvie's names from those days: TERRY FIDE

And wasn't Sands Speedway a cool thing, an oval track built on a hilside so that it had a climbing turn and a diving turn with the back straight significantly lower than the front straight. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. I remember watching from the upper straightaway outside wall with Guy Light coming by at full speed within literally a couple of inches of the wall and getting covered with the dust and dirt he stirred up.

Kent Gardam

[Eric_Anderson]

>And for all those real old timers out there, extraspecial
>bonus points if you can reel off the license numbers of
>Eric's rally car and service vehicle from those daze...



Those are too easy.

I know the one he kept threatening to apply for which he seemed to think he could get by BMV: 4 NICK 8. (Say it out loud... with a slight Southern Ohio twang.)

[Crashton]

Yes TRUCK is still on the Sub & Datsun gets switched from one Datsun to another. Rex Karrs & Terry Fide are now on Eric's rally MGB & his rally Cortina.

Chuck Ashton

[Paul Jaeger]

>
>>And for all those real old timers out there, extraspecial
>>bonus points if you can reel off the license numbers of
>>Eric's rally car and service vehicle from those daze...
>
>
>
>Those are too easy.
>
>I know the one he kept threatening to apply for which he
>seemed to think he could get by BMV: 4 NICK 8. (Say it out
>loud... with a slight Southern Ohio twang.)

Another of the old Columbus Rally Club crew, Al Mandel (AKA Frodo Baggins)briefly had Ohio Plate PHUQUE until he was followed by a BMV staffer one day and the plate recalled.

Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!

[Doug Woods]

>>Doug, just a question...Where exactly did the rally run out
>>to? I think it started in Smith falls, ya? so where did it
>>go?
>
>The '74 Rideau Lakes (the World Championship round) went
>over as far as Bancroft (running stages that are now staples
>in the Tall Pines) and came back via Desert Lake (south of
>Sharbot Lake and spitting distance from my parent's
>cottage).
>
>Adrian

Adrian,

Thanks for answering for me. I am currently down in the Dominican Republic and managed to log onto the internet by the beach!

I am about to go golfing and then come back and down a few cold beers at the beach while I watch the scenery. Unfortunately, some of the women on the beach must be poor, because they seem to be able to afford only the bottom half of a bikini!

When I get back and have more time, I will write something about the 1973 Rideau Lakes and the rally route. The FIA Observer for WRC status was Bo Hellberg, who was then the SAAB competition manager. He and I spent an entire day together in the car as I showed him the rally route for 1973 and the roads we would use in 1974, if we achieved WRC status.

Doug Woods

[Mad Mike]

>Unfortunately, some of the women on the beach must be poor,
>because they seem to be able to afford only the bottom half
>of a bikini!

Doug, you're collecting photographic evidence of these poor women's plight so we might review them and try to assist asap, right? It's the humanatarian thing to do, you know?

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com

[Foghorn]

I just recalled another Navvie's name that was rattling around in the back of my brain and finally fell out: Phil O'Dendron

Kent Gardam

[Charlie KA8OQF]

Sands Speedway is still there, and still doing its Sunday afternoon thing...
It's a short track, I'm guessing 1/8 mi oval, but turns 1+2 are downhill and 3+4 are uphill -- it's gotta be 20 feet or better of a drop from the front to the back straight. And the grandstands just follow the contour of the hillside. I get the idea someone had some land they didn't quite know what to do with, until that drunken evening...

I went to the roundy-rounds there all the time. When they'd run Street Stock (run your street car, at your own risk), the heavy winner was an Olds Toronado...you could hear those front tires shrieking half a mile away...

Had a chance to drive there one time, but the weather didn't cooperate...

Ya shoulda seen the rally cars doin' their thing on timed laps around that mess...who was it that blew the motor there in '75, Harvey or Henderson? Can't quite recall...

[Eric_Anderson]

Another dozen or so new pictures are now available.

I have moved the pix from my corporate site to their own site.

Eventually, I'll get some search options on the site so you'll be able to see shots by driver or by event.

There's more than 60 pix on the site now, and the total will be more than a hundred when I finally get them all scanned and uploaded.

This new batch includes a BGDR retrospective, Bill Dodd, Scott Harvey, Jim Walker, Jim Beatty, John Buffum and some shots from 1974 Happiness Is Sunrise and the 1973 Rally of the Rideau Lakes.

Anyway, the new site is:

http://www.rallyalmanac.com

(I haven't spent a lot of time debugging the software, so if you encounter problems, let me know.)

Enjoy!

[Paul Jaeger]

Eric, I have identified some of your newly posted photographs. I looked through my 1972 POR program and matched up car numbers. On BGDR, car 142 is Bill Braund and Rod Natho in a 1971 Toyota Corona, car 173 is Dale McAlister and Joe Le Beau in a Dart Performance 72 Subaru, and i think the last car is a Saab 99. The only Sabb 99 in the rally was David Birdsall & John Crawford in #161 Saab 99. I think I might have even been taking pictures at this corner also in 1972.

The Corvair on Beele Isle is also from 1972. It is Dean Walker and Jerry Rosegger of Cleveland in a Yenko Corvair. The pictures of Bill Doadd and Jim Beatty were also from 1972.

Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!

[Mad Mike]

uhhh, never mind. ;)

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com

[Eric_Anderson]

>Eric, I have identified some of your newly posted
>photographs. I looked through my 1972 POR program and
>matched up car numbers. On BGDR, car 142 is Bill Braund and
>Rod Natho in a 1971 Toyota Corona, car 173 is Dale McAlister
>and Joe Le Beau in a Dart Performance 72 Subaru, and i think
>the last car is a Saab 99. The only Sabb 99 in the rally
>was David Birdsall & John Crawford in #161 Saab 99. I think
>I might have even been taking pictures at this corner also
>in 1972.
>

Thanks, Paul. I've made the changes and they'll appear the next time I upload a new copy of the database, probably within the next couple of days. Hang on to that entry list, I think there are a bunch of negs from that POR. I'm having some problems that negs are in the wrong sleeves and are not what they say they are.

I recognized the Beatty car, Mike Creech bought it and we ran it in at least one event -- my recollection is that it was the spookiest car I ever codrove in. It had lots of horsepower, and no cornering ability. At least that's the way I remember it.

[Charlie KA8OQF]

http://www.rallyalmanac.com/images/unknown30.jpg

Oh my sweet bleedin' jeebus...IT'S THE SUPER TRUCK!!!!!

How well I remember this effort...driver Bernie Pizarro was a college student here at UD, with more money and enthusiasm than common
sense...he was a transfer student from South America, and for some reason seemed to have money dribbling out of his shoes. He showed
up at a National Sports Cars Club of Dayton meeting one time, and without very much ado at all, was shanghaied into being the service
vehicle for Nick Folger's 510 at a Tulip 200 -- in this truck!
The year this photo was taken, Bernie and navigator Doug McCabe were doing sorta pretty good, until up in the mountains, Bernie tried
a little ditch-hooking to snap himself around a bend. Trouble was, the ditch was actually the side of the mountain, and the truck just kinda
bogged itself to a stop on the edge of the road, balanced on the crossmembers...until the edge gave way, and over our heroes went. The
truck ended on its side about 70 feet down the hill. The tree that stopped it was the only one big enough to do so for another hundred feet down...as I recall, that night sweep at least was able to get the truck back on its wheels...
The next day, we all went back to retrieve the truck. A local wrecker pulled it up the hill. We took jack handles and pried the front
fenders from where they lapped over the hood, popped the hood, and dumped a gallon or so of oil in. Bernie crossed his fingers and
twisted the key -- and she came back to life. Wasn't a straight piece of sheet metal left, but it ran.
The truck made it into town, where it went up on the lift at the gas station. Seems as the suspension was still adequate, but the rear
driveshaft was bent badly. There were some hasty discussions as the engine oil got changed -- seems as if it spent the night nose down on
that very steep hill, and a large quantity of crankcase contents was actually gasoline...but eventually, we got it all squared away for the trip to Dayton by pulling the rear driveshaft, sticking the transfer case in 4wdHI, and locking the front hubs. It were well and truly ingenious...
Why do I keep saying 'we'? Because I was there, driving Bernie's black market Canadian-temporary-transit-tagged Euro-spec Land
Rover as the service vehicle. I'll never forget the sight as we headed for home -- the truck crumpled beyond belief, one headlight pointing
toward Arcturus and one driving light aimed about ten feet ahead of the truck, no glass anywhere, Bernie with his full-face helmet and an
old sweater wrapped and stuffed around his neck as a scarf, no gloves, tooling back to town on US35...seemed to take us forever, but
she did get home...

I have to go and check with a few people to see if they have any pictures of the truck running the '80 Sunriser...yes, its first pro rally was 1980, if I recall right...and I hope I do...because that year, the co-driver was lil' ol' me...yep...you're looking at a picture of the kid's first performance rally ride...if I ever start drinking again, y'all can buy me a pitcher and I'll tell you a tale or two...or three..or four...

And by the way...the sticks and limbs hanging from the tree on the right are familiar...Crashton? Got any shots of the Super Truck? That's the same corner you so adroitly pirouetted out of Bruno's way...got any shots of The Truck from '80? (IhopeIhopeIhopeIhope, becuz I ain't got none...)

[Eric_Anderson]

I posted some more pix tonight. We're up to 72 now, not counting the documents.

Kent take a look at the one headlined "a green Datsun." Is that you? It reminds me of Smiskol's 510...

Doug, there's a Walter picture (I believe) from what I think is the 1973 POR.

Enjoy.

[Foghorn]

Nope, sorry, I didn't have those stripes. But I've seen that car before. Maybe in the middle of the night I'll wake up and remember it.

Kent Gardam

[Doug Woods]

>Doug, there's a Walter picture (I believe) from what I think
>is the 1973 POR.

Eric:

You are correct - Walter Boyce and I on the 1973 POR.

Doug Woods

[Charlie KA8OQF]

All the pictures referenced below -- start here:
http://www.rallyalmanac.com/itemlist.asp?sqltype=front&pagestyle=default1&curpage=1

1981 Sunriser 400 Results http://www.rallyracingnews.com/scca/rally/sun81.html

A Different Datsun
Why does the name 'Mark' come to mind when I see this car? Wasn't it blue, with yellow stripes etc? An ex-Millen machine? The '81 Sunriser results show car 6 as Jon Woodner/Ginny Reese in a 510...

A Green 510 At Speed
Brian Rebney? Wasn't this thing on the cover of the Cooper Tire rallying handout? Can't be 81, according to the results...

See The Cloud Of Dust?
Yeah, it were dusty all right...especially if the vehicle ahead of you was big enough that you could park in the bed...according to the results, this is James Slivka and James Strunk...they were #35, the Super Truck ("A Full-Size Pickup On A Stage Event) was #34, and that was early enough that I don't think they'd have caught Bernie yet...

Brian Culcheth's Austin Being Serviced
Yep. '74 POR, in the parking lot of the Marquette Mall (I patronized the VW dealership across US41 in the background).

A Volvo At Speed
Again, names/cars/numbers don't match with the results above.

Jean Rizor Co-Drives A Volvo
The results don't list Jean as being entered. Car 7 that year was suppposedly Wayne and Debra Baldwin in a Volvo GLT

You sure these pix are '81? Things don't match up...the '80 results aren't on the web...anyone got the '80 results to check car numbers etc?

Scott Harvey Leaves The Start Control
Ahhh, The Rhino...truly a testosterone-enhancing vehicle...I remember it rather well...

A BMW 2000 At Speed
As posted earlier in this thread, I have the shortwave radio out of this car...

Jean-Paul Perusse at the 1981 Sunriser
Okay, this one matches...

Eric Jones at the 1981 Sunriser
Another match...

John Woolf & Grant Whittaker get some help
A 911 likes oversteer (Bruno Kreibich)
Two matches in the '81 results

Eric Jones leaving Houghton MTC
POR, not sure if it's '74 or '75...

John and Vicki at speed
I do hope John was in a slide, because otherwise he's about to get up close and personal with that post...

[Kim 100AW]

The 510 you think might be Hendrik Blok is actually me...who else would have a 510 Tigger looking like a Mexican Taxicab?

"A Datsun 510 powers through Sunriser". And 'powers' was a term I wouldn't probably use! But I've got two in the garage and if I can ever get enough time away from Co-Driving for some wild-assed kid in a 350hp EVO and putting on Club Rallies, by dad gummit I'll get one of them running!

Thanks for the pic...I'm honored!

Kim DeMotte
Official Old Fart, etc.

[Charlie KA8OQF]

>The 510 you think might be Hendrik Blok is actually me...who
>else would have a 510 Tigger looking like a Mexican Taxicab?

>Kim DeMotte
>Official Old Fart, etc.

Okay...now we're getting somewhere. Kim, what year was this? The car numbers/cars/people don't match the results for Sunriser 81 or later years. Earlier? Maybe a Tulip 200 in that period? I do recall it was run as a National a year or three...and it was real popular as a divisional to warm up for Sunriser...

[Eric_Anderson]

>A Different Datsun
>A Green 510 At Speed

>>A Volvo At Speed
>Again, names/cars/numbers don't match with the results
>above.
>
>Jean Rizor Co-Drives A Volvo
>You sure these pix are '81?


And herein lies the problem.

When I first got started, I "thought" the color Sunriser pix (they are slides) were 1981 because they were mixed in with the 1981 B&W negatives.

I started wondering about it because the slides have started color shifting to green... you'll notice, there's a greenish cast that I can't get comepletely out. This is Ektachrome, which Kodak claimed was good for 20 years without a color shift. Kodak is generally reliable with those estimates, which causes me to thinking the slides might actually be older than 1981.

There's no more than a dozen of these slides, and none of the top contenders, which makes identifying the year difficult. They're all from Scioto Trail. If I remember right, at least through the early '80s, Scioto Trail was never a spectator location because it was too hard to get in and out of.


>Scott Harvey Leaves The Start Control
>Ahhh, The Rhino...truly a testosterone-enhancing vehicle...I
>remember it rather well...


Wish I could go back and strangle myself for not keeping negatives better organized. This is in a folder marked 1973 POR. I happen to know it's the '74 HIS because the next shot in the sequence is Harvey pulling away under a banner that reads 1974 HIS.

>Eric Jones leaving Houghton MTC
>POR, not sure if it's '74 or '75...


I know this is 1974. This is about the time the rumor was running around that the Fiat crew had repaired their car by taking the doors (with the car number) off the competition car and put them on a backup car, which they then used for the night.

I never did find out whether the rumor was true, but changing doors onto a new car seems like a fast method of car repair.

[Crashton]

The picture identified as a 610 or 710 at the 81 Sunriser is in fact a 510. That was Millen's car for a while. In 81 it was Woodner's & had a Cosworth BDA under the hood. He finished second to Millen at the 81 Sunriser.

Eric, I spent some time looking at old black & white 8x10's over the weekend. Boy do I wish I'd kept better notes.:(

The Rally Almanac is looking so good. Keep posting those old photos they are great.

Chuck Ashton

[Foghorn]

>Eric, I spent some time looking at old black & white 8x10's
>over the weekend. Boy do I wish I'd kept better notes.:(
>
>Chuck Ashton

Well, get them scanned, find some place to host them (maybe Eric can?) and we'll all collectively scratch our bald spots and offer opinions of what we see!

Kent Gardam

[Paul Jaeger]

Eric,
Your color pictures are from the 78 Sunriser.
I found my results.

#8 510 is indeed Kim Demotte with Carolyn Hall on the 1978 Sunriser. Kim finished 31st out of 37 cars finishing. He lost about 10 minutes to the field on the infamous Creek stage. He still beat us though. We DNF'd on the second to last stage. Mad Mike also DNFed in a Chevy Vega.

The #51 beetle is Jeff Mcgeee/Dave Shelton.
The Volvo with the Kiwi flag is Graham Thompson/Jeff Becker

>>A Different Datsun
>>A Green 510 At Speed
Brian Rebney/Tom Bell from 78 Sunriser
>>>A Volvo At Speed
Bill Maher/Don Derose 78 Sunriser
>>
>>Jean Rizor Co-Drives A Volvo
Tom Tolles/Jean Rizor 78 Sunriser

>
>There's no more than a dozen of these slides, and none of
>the top contenders, which makes identifying the year
>difficult. They're all from Scioto Trail. If I remember
>right, at least through the early '80s, Scioto Trail was
>never a spectator location because it was too hard to get in
>and out of.
>
>
>>Scott Harvey Leaves The Start Control
>>Ahhh, The Rhino...truly a testosterone-enhancing vehicle...I
>>remember it rather well...
>
>
>Wish I could go back and strangle myself for not keeping
>negatives better organized. This is in a folder marked 1973
>POR. I happen to know it's the '74 HIS because the next shot
>in the sequence is Harvey pulling away under a banner that
>reads 1974 HIS.
>
>>Eric Jones leaving Houghton MTC
>>POR, not sure if it's '74 or '75...
>
>
>I know this is 1974. This is about the time the rumor was
>running around that the Fiat crew had repaired their car by
>taking the doors (with the car number) off the competition
>car and put them on a backup car, which they then used for
>the night.
>
>I never did find out whether the rumor was true, but
>changing doors onto a new car seems like a fast method of
>car repair.

Paul Jaeger
PRIMO Stage Crews
For a Good Time, Call PRIMO!

[Eric_Anderson]

>
>Well, get them scanned, find some place to host them (maybe
>Eric can?) and we'll all collectively scratch our bald spots
>and offer opinions of what we see!
>



I'll put anything up there that anyone wants.

(Hopefully, Doug'll be sending us some of those vacation pictures of those women who couldn't afford the top half of the bikini. May be more interesting than rally pictures.)

There's 500 megs available on that site, probably enough room for 1,000 pix or more. I don't mind paying for the hosting, and I think it would be cool to have as complete a visual history of rallying in North America as possible. I've had a lot of fun with this project so far, and anyone who wants can join in.

If you want me to post something up there for you, send me an email and we can work out the details. I'm going to stop scanning for a little bit. It will take me a couple of days to write the code so that you can find images by driver or event.

[Kim 100AW]

I was running the Saab by '81, so it couldn't be '81.

I'm thinking and early stage on HIS or STPR? Looks like a nice 'corps of engineer' downhill left....certianly National Forest potential. But it's not Sunriser '81.

Kim DeMotte
Official Old Fart, etc.

[Kim 100AW]

This shot was "pre-Creek". "Pst-Creek" we finished the event with no windshield (in those days the rule 'was no broken glass'....didn't say anything about 'no glass!').

Somewhere out there is a series of pics of the spectators at the Creek rolling us back on our feet...Ian Tugwell being the most prominent 'roller'....anybody got that set?

We finished with helmet shields on in the drizzling rain as I recall....might have been Carolyn's last ride....hmmmmm

And I remember something about a disastrous tow home losing a wheel off the trailer....an altogether forgettable weekend....thanks for remembering, Paul!

Kim DeMotte
Official Old Fart, etc.

[Mad Mike]

>Mad Mike also DNFed in a Chevy Vega.

That POS broke any time I pushed it a little, but I do seem to remember logging faster stage times than a Porsche 911. ;)

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/Vega/sunr78-1.jpg

Isn't that Doc Shrader in the background with arms crossed and the cowboy hat on? The stature is right, the posture is right and he still wears those hats :7 so the only question is - was he running in the 78 Sunriser or available to hang out on a logpile??

BTW - In a classic fit of overcompensation my second rally car was a Peugeot 504, a machine I had to work rather hard to break!

Halley ...
Owner/Driver ProRally #86 - world's first New Beetle Rally Car
RealAutoSport, LLC
http://www.realautosport.com

[Yavor Klostranec]

Thanks for the great pix, Eric.

I dug up the results from the 74 Canadian Winter. Here's the ID of the crews:

Car 23 - Jim Callon/Roger Dooley, Michigan - Datsun 510
Car 46 - Keith Spencer/Rob Simpson, Ontario - Honda Civic
Car 14 - Howard Wahn/Jim Pue-Gilchrist, Ontario - Datsun 510
Car 36 - Colin Werner/Ed Agnew, Ontario - Fiat 128

The rally had over 90 starters but only 18 finished due to a massive road-blockage during the night. Most of us DNFs spent the night at a gas stop waiting for Bob Lindquist to declare if we are max late or still in the rally. Eventually, around 5 am, Bob decided that there's goint to be no mercy.

[Andrew Comrie Picard]

Oh! What a great great thread. Now I see the advantage of technology - these photos were always out there, but now we all get to share them. Thank you.

ACP
www.musketeerracing.com
Flirting with the laws of physics.

[Mad Mike]

>(That) shot was "pre-Creek". "Post-Creek" we finished the
>event with no windshield (in those days the rule 'was no
>broken glass'....didn't say anything about 'no glass!').
<snip>
>We finished with helmet shields on in the drizzling rain as
>I recall....might have been Carolyn's last ride....hmmmmm
>
>Kim DeMotte
>Official Old Fart, etc.

Here's a pic I scanned from an old photo of Cotterman's:

http://www.realautosport.com/pics/Kims510s.jpg

Cotterman is wearing coveralls and about to take that baton to the knuckles of the bearded chap who looks ready to pour a can of peas into the carb. :7

Look closely and you'll see Kim had his name on the back of his hat, languishing as it was on the navvie's side of the car when this pic was snapped ...

From the ample evidence it appears Kim found a way to render the windscreen demisters moot at the same instant he massaged the roof into that unique shape ...

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Halley ...
Owner/Driver ProRally #86 - world's first New Beetle Rally Car
RealAutoSport, LLC
http://www.realautosport.com

[Charlie KA8OQF]

Well, it was a flashlight and not a baton, the can was full of tranny fluid that went som'ers into the carbalater somehow, but the id's on the driver and the reason for the vehicle lightening by way of glass removal are accurate...

Thanks for posting this one, Mike.

I do kinda wish I had the shot later on, with this thing in the parc ferme at POR, with training wheels on hubcaps on the rear wheels...

Kim -- is this beastie one of the two you've got in the garage? H class is calling your name...still got Ms. Hall's phone number?

[gravelgeezer]

Eric,

You have got me looking through old photos & slides from
71 Canadian Winter, 72-75 POR, more Marathon 400, etc. I
don't have many, but I'll try to share what I have if I can
get the slides scanned.


This brings back alot of memories, and reminds me how much
I have forgotten!


George Beckerman
(Gravelgeezer)

[Eric_Anderson]

>Eric,
>
>You have got me looking through old photos & slides from
>71 Canadian Winter, 72-75 POR, more Marathon 400, etc. I
>don't have many, but I'll try to share what I have if I can
>get the slides scanned.
>
>


If you need, I'll scan the slides. I have a fairly (nay, make that way too) expensive slide scanner that does a pretty good job with 35 mm.

Send me a private email if you want me to do your scanning.

[Bruce Beauvais]

Agreed
The green 510 is Brian Rebney.
Buffum's 911 is likely to be at 1976 NARA Marquette 1000. Zasada won the '75 POR with that car and sold it to Buffum. Note the Marquette 1000 plaque on the hood and if you can read the side of the car,the famous "Let's Boogie" side script would be there.
Woodner ran the "new" 1978- 510 in blue trim . When Roddy ran it it was yellow.
The Tom Tolles 122 is at a later rally. Note the WonderMuffler/Lancia ID package.As I remember Lancia/Wonder Muffler was David Ash's NARA /NARRA 1976/1977 sponsor. NARA didn't exist until the 1976 season. Lancia/Wonder Muffler was never an SCCA sponsor. NARRA then goes to the Montgomery Wards Auto Club as title sponsor for 1978.
In your 1975 Marathon 400 photos, Blok's 510 would be very distintive. It appears to be as two-door car but the doors are too short. He used a 4-door body for stiffness and welded/filled in the rear doors. He also had the big flares fitted. The base color was white ,I didn't remember the trim colors. Nils Eriksen and I might be in your photos. I doubt it though - a black Fiat 124 spyder- way in the back of the pack. First car on the road was Hourihan/Shepard 142.

Bruce Beauvais
de KA8VTK

[Kim 100AW]

Nope, this one was recycled into a liesure racing machine when I started getting weird with 99's. The two in my garage are a GT-4 Race car (with full cage and nice, but peaky engine and NO ELECTRICS) and a Rally Car (Richard Bunce's if anyone remembers the name) with the 1975 POR sticker still in the trunk....no cage 'tho..just a bar and stock seats, etc.) Theoretically both should run, but I have no empirical proof of that in the last 24 months since I took on this Damned Rally!

Kim DeMotte
Official Old Fart, etc.

[gravelgeezer]

In 1975, Wonder Muffler offered SCCA license holders a $50 voucher
(lots of money in 1975...) towards an exhaust system for their rally car. The voucher could be taken to a Wonder Muffler dealer who would
do the work and get reimbursed by Wonder Muffler.

A Mom & Pop shop in Newton, IL spent many hours building a system for our SAAB 96 by copying our beat-up copy of the factory Group 2 system.
They were fantastic people. They underestimated the difficulty of the
job but refused to charge us for the extra time they spent. The system
was bulletproof, took everything the tough U.P. Michigan roads could dish out at '75 POR, and lasted for years.

Tom Tolles ran second to Zasada at POR in '75 in the white 2dr. 122 Volvo. Guy Light was third. Doris and I started 46th, worked our way up to 4th, 5 seconds behind Guy Light, when we DNF'ed on the
next-to-the-last stage. If only... How many of us have "if only" stories?


George Beckerman