Feedback Requested: Super Race Roll Cage Kit

[Safe Drives]

Hello to All,

I am seeking feedback on the Super Race Roll Cage kit that we have been selling now for about a year or so. I recently had some feedback that was not positive. So lay it on me folks, I can take it! How can I make this a better kit? What other cars would you like to see this kit be available for? What do you like about the kit?

If you have no idea what we are talking about in this thread please click on this link, http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35398.

Thank you for reading, :)

[heymagic]

The cage kit as pictured is compliant when installed properly. Could you spend $4k and get a tighter fit, possibly, would it be any better, I can't say.

Gene McCullough
RA Western Tech Supervisor
NRS West Scrutineer

Just saw a pic of another install and the front legs could definitely be better fit. They appear to be about 3 inches back too far. You might want to talk to Autopower about that.

[Safe Drives]

The cage kit as pictured is compliant when installed properly. Could you spend $4k and get a tighter fit, possibly, would it be any better, I can't say.

Gene McCullough
RA Western Tech Supervisor
NRS West Scrutineer

Just saw a pic of another install and the front legs could definitely be better fit. They appear to be about 3 inches back too far. You might want to talk to Autopower about that.

OK Gene, I just want to be clear that we are talking about this image?

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/Rally78/Rally%20Build/23-June2010.jpg

This is the other image of have of this mounting point of this kit:
http://safedrives.com/prodimages/autopower/SuperRace/dash_lg.jpg

[heymagic]

Yup, that picture. If they lessened the angle on the last bend the foot could be further forward. Or just put the bend further down and that would work also. Wouldn't really take much. I understand it is a kit not a custom fit and I don't have huge issues with it. However a couple inches here and there would make a huge impact (snicker..) visually. I suspect it will hold the roof up either way.

[Billy Elliot]

Also, the angled door bar where it connects to the main hoop should be a bit lower. Not sure how the RA/NASA/CARS guys look at it in tech, but since they all based off of FIA rules I'm not sure if this rule carries over.

Anyways, if you pull up the FIA safety appendix 253:
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/86CFF466E978ED6DC125774C002CD5E3/$FILE/253%20(10-11).pdf

Go to page 13 of 19 and you will see a drawing. It states that the height of the top intersection of the door X on the main hoop must not be more than half the height of the door aperture. From that picture, it is well above that height.

[heymagic]

There are too many shapes and sizes of door openings. Where that X passes the actual door opening it appears to be 1/2 way. I'm sure that is a dimension controlled by the installer . It usually isn't a deal breaker and if someone sends me pics during building I look for bars that are too high and try to correct the situation if possible.

[Safe Drives]

Yup, that picture. If they lessened the angle on the last bend the foot could be further forward. Or just put the bend further down and that would work also. Wouldn't really take much. I understand it is a kit not a custom fit and I don't have huge issues with it. However a couple inches here and there would make a huge impact (snicker..) visually. I suspect it will hold the roof up either way.

Thanks Gene, I'll be working with Autopower this week to see if they can improve the kit and get me a sample for my Impreza. For sure, the cage in the image of the red car, would hold the roof up. I agree it could be tighter fitting and look better.


Also, the angled door bar where it connects to the main hoop should be a bit lower. Not sure how the RA/NASA/CARS guys look at it in tech, but since they all based off of FIA rules I'm not sure if this rule carries over.

Anyways, if you pull up the FIA safety appendix 253:
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/86CFF466E978ED6DC125774C002CD5E3/$FILE/253%20(10-11).pdf

Go to page 13 of 19 and you will see a drawing. It states that the height of the top intersection of the door X on the main hoop must not be more than half the height of the door aperture. From that picture, it is well above that height.


Billy,

I agree that the doorbars in the image of the red car above are mounted too high.

As with any weld in roll cage, you have a lot of flexibility with where and how the strait bars connect. As such, it's not the cage kits fault that the doorbars are mounted too high in the image of the red car above.

[Safe Drives]

OK I have been working with Autopower this week to see what we can do to improve the kit based on the feedback we are getting here and on DI. The Autopower folks are considering a lot of factors when they create a cage kit. For example, the above blue car image shows how the kit had to clear some of the wires and relays under the dash. The red car is shown without a dash entirely so it's hard to compare this car with the one that was originally presented to Autopower for prototype, which was a stock running / driving 1993 Impreza with all of the blah blahs. Whew... What to do, what to do? Change the kit and have some folks hate you because they have to do more under dash stuff, or leave the kit alone as a compromise? Here is where your feedback becomes helpful Rally Family. :)

Autopower is putting pricing together for me next week so we can offer the 0.0905 wall thick tube and offer 1.5" OD for support braces per RA Specification. It will cost more and I understand. FYI, Autopower buys bulk of the .120" wall tube. *shrugs*

Standard Roof Support bars will have bend in them at the rear to aid in helmet clearance.

Optional Double V >< Roof Support will now be available at additional cost. However the rearmost V brace will be completely pre-notched, pre-fit and ready for weld. Remember, the main hoop is completely pre fabricated and ready to drop into the car.

Harness bar hights will now be specifiable buy the purchaser of this kit so that one harness bar can be higher than the other. Also, the harness bars can be left out of the main hoop at the factory and installed at your location if desired. No charge for this option.

A slight bend will be put into the drivers side A Pillar Support Brace to aid in steering wheel clearance. No charge.

More information wil be available next week.

Please keep the feedback coming folks. Thanks!

[Safe Drives]

New update,

Autopower will not be offering the 0.095' wall thick or 1.5" OD tube, at all. They do want to have to deal with liability concerns like if someone put the wronge tube in the wronge place they fell they would be possibly held more liable that if they just offer the one tube thickness. It's up to them since it is they who hold th liablity and they are the ones making the kits...

I have two kits coming to me right now here in Oregon for installation. On for a 93-01 car and one kit for the 2003 to 2007 car. I will document the installation of these kits and post in this thread at that time.

All the best,
Charles

[Safe Drives]

I have two kits coming to me right now here in Oregon for installation. One for a 93-01 car and one kit for the 2003 to 2007 car. I will document the installation of these kits and post in this thread at that time.

All the best,
Charles

OK, the 2003 to 2007 car has been completed. The customer asked for many additional elements to be added to his installation, but the following images include all of the main elements of this kit.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs639.snc4/59908_442977536008_295015366008_5136950_3665091_n. jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs659.snc4/59908_442977521008_295015366008_5136947_8305177_n. jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs319.ash2/59908_442977516008_295015366008_5136946_6388340_n. jpg
Optional Strut Tower Brace Shown. Note how the cage kit clears the stock dash bar and all wires.

A bunch more photos are available at the Safe Drives Facebook page, http://www.facebook.com/worldhazard?v=wall&story_fbid=107676212625861#!/album.php?aid=224994&id=295015366008 (http://www.facebook.com/worldhazard?v=wall&story_fbid=107676212625861#!/album.php?aid=224994&id=295015366008)

[heymagic]

I looked at that last car and can add some input, although not entirely positive. The front bars can still go forward another 2 inches easily. Clearance wouldn't be an issue.

The A pillar bars (not shown) were really a bit high. You are allowed to move them forward 4 inches and they can be bent outward 20* for steering wheel clearance. 253 states something along the line of "not unduly impeding access". At some point those bars can be required to be moved by a scrutineer.

The welds we need to talk about privately...

[Safe Drives]

Thanks for all of your feedback Gene, including the time on the phone.

Here is a well documented install of this kit. I had nothing to do with this install. I just found the thread on nasioc and thought it would go well here. Obviously this guy added a lot of stuff but the basic structure is the Autopower kit.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2083750