Check out the RallyMoto Announcement on NASA Forums

[starion887]

This just popped up on the NASA Forums and may be here on SSForum somewhere too. Interesting!

Mark B.

[jimmy]

What Mark means is this:

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=7809&sid=2bf29f74d6ea4e16466be3a3e815c019

press on,

[MDBodnar]

This is interesting, I was under the impression that there were very few open road motorcycle events: Dakar, Isle of Man, and desert racing.

I thought racing motorcycles in a stage format was primarily done on narrower trails with asscoiated slower speeds.

So are there some websites that explain or show motorcycle racing on typical tree lined rally roads? (i.e. differentiated from narrower tree lined trails)

Also: getting back to the roots of rally, if you can race motorcycles on rally roads -- with one person... Why not eliminate the navigator and rally blind (who can read the road the best...)?

Or is this meant to run two events simultaneously incorporating local trails as the stages and rally roads as transits?

In general -- the bigger the event the better from a promotion piont of view.

Mike

[jimmy]

Or, maybe it is bikes with sidecars? I have a picture of me at the top of Pikes Peak "pretending" to be the monkey. No matter what we do, there is always one crazier!

I ran a TSD once and 2 guys in a a bike competed. It rained that day. So, by the end, their route instructions were a wadded up ball that were completely unreadable.

Different strokes.

press on,

[Eric Burmeister]

Man. Now I gotta go do Olympus. This is awesome. And scary at the same time. I'll spread the word over on ThumperTalk and KTMtalk.

You'll get lots of motard riders...maybe me.

Time to up my health insurance.

I was just the other day lamenting the days of a dirt bike and a pickup truck and changing pistons between motos...

[tom grossmann]

Jeeezzz Eric I knew you were serious but changing pistons between motos?? We poor club road racers guys just jet em fat for practice. This should be interesting........given how smooth Rally roads are I'd be tempted to run short supension ala motocross bikes turned dirt track bikes , sure hope the bikes go first. Lastly I wonder what classes they will have for bikes or just one.....geee I wonder if my vintage motocross bike can run historic???:D
Ok on a serious note this is a good way to up the entries.

Tom

[Lancia037Rally]

>Or, maybe it is bikes with sidecars? I have a picture of me
>at the top of Pikes Peak "pretending" to be the monkey. No
>matter what we do, there is always one crazier!

I also thought the guys on sidecars @ Pike's Peak were crazy. Then they pointed out that they could leap off the bike should they be about to crash over the edge, and rallycar drivers are belted in and go over with the car.:o

[Eric Burmeister]

> Jeeezzz Eric I knew you were serious but changing pistons
>between motos??

Not really. I think Chris Whiteman did. I remember him breaking a countershaft sprocket bolt and using the square handle end of a file as an easy out.

Here is the rig I took to spectate STPR in 04...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y281/sirlurch/DSCN0169.jpg

Six of us went down there and camped in the canyon...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y281/sirlurch/DSCN0167.jpg

My new one is now street legal...just need the motard wheels and brakes.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y281/sirlurch/DSCN1048.jpg

Shindle's been emailing me bugging to get a side car. Hmmm. Stage notes on a bike...sounds like fun! Time for a 950 SuperEnduro R with motard wheels/brakes and a sidehack for Dave!

[LowMan]

Also hope they make sure these bike riders have some kind of prior experience. It doesn't cost much to get a stock bike and hit speeds that can send you smacking off a couple trees, a rock, then face down in a ditch(that might have a couple inches of water in it). These guys have no cage.

[Bjorn240]

That's really cool, so long as everyone agrees not to say anything to Travis.

- Christian

Bjorn Christian Edstrom
www.christianedstrom.com

[tom grossmann]

I've been eye balling the DRZ-400SM , love KTM's but I'm to used to Japanese maintenance intervals. Not to mention a 500 is waaaaaaaay to big and heavy for my girly man frame. Looks like you guys had fun.

Tom

[Eric Burmeister]

One broken leg at STPR. He was on a DRZ in dirt trim. He's back on it now. :-)

I've got a couple supermoto tracks within an hour or so now. It's great fun grinding footpegs and jumping and flattrack sliding, but I still ain't backin' it in on the tarmac yet. Chicken.

[tom grossmann]

Isn't riding background a funny thing: I have no problem sliding bikes on dry pavement yet the thought of even attempting a set of doubles scares the daylights out of me.

Tom

[Easy Rider]

>That's really cool, so long as everyone agrees not to say
>anything to Travis.
>- Christian
>
>Bjorn Christian Edstrom
>www.christianedstrom.com

LOL
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

[XenoWolf]

>That's really cool, so long as everyone agrees not to say
>anything to Travis.
>
>- Christian
>
>Bjorn Christian Edstrom
>www.christianedstrom.com


Hahaha...

I've been wondering for a while why there hasn't been any rally moto at the RA/NASA events, it only seems natural. I assume the SCCA didn't do it because of them being a 'sports car' club.

I hope that if they do this, they consolidate it with the cars and run both series together. I can't imagine logistics for both would be that bad compared to just one or the other.

[OLYMPUSRALLY]

The motorcycles will go out and be about 1hr in front of the cars running the same stages,only the motorcycles will be more of a TSD type of event. We are looking forward to hosting this for the 1st time. :-)

[JTree]

so is there already an existing series run in the US like this, and we are incorperating those riders? seems a huge risk as a bike accident has a greater injury potential, thus higher ins, stage delays, negative public view. With the death of riders at Dakar comes calls for it being too dangerous for bikes, i know dakar is more dangerous, but most of those riders are probably more experienced.

[jimmy]

They are going to be in FRONT of us? Didn't you guys learn your lesson with McGiver?

>The motorcycles will go out and be about 1hr in front of the
>cars running the same stages,

press on,

[OLYMPUSRALLY]

Our plan is to give them a set speed at the start of a stage no going as fast as you can more along the lines of a tsd.More for people to see, more help from a new group of workers,a new twist for new sponsors.

[Eric Burmeister]

Are they given roll charts of the course a la AMA Enduro? Do they know where the finish (checkpoint) control is? If its all known, they'll (we'll?) "burn" the stage and sit outside the control until our time to "zero" it. If the stages are the same...and the stage lengths are public...I don't know how you'll make this work. The reason enduros work on avg. speed is because the checks are secret.

Then there will be some who just burn it and say screw the average. :) Don't ask me how I know. They are running their own rally with a results sheet you will never see unless you know which bar we laid our money down in. }(

Anyway, I'm anxious to see how it works! Imagine being able to buy a WRC spec vehicle from your local dealer for less than 10 grand. Such is the world of motorcycles. 'course, it helps if you know how to ride.

[Eric Burmeister]

Also, I think you should plan on a few extra ambulances. I am serious. Go to a few motorcycle races of any stripe and count the number of guys in casts and on crutches about.

I think of bike racing and rallying differently. I think my chances of getting hurt are much higher on bikes. My chances of getting dead are a fair bit higher in a car. A car just protects you so much better to a certain point...beyond which things are much uglier. Proper bike gear also protects you, but it is one's sense of self preservation and intimate feel and control of a bike that lets an experienced rider know his limits better than a driver of a cage.

Just food for thought. How much is entry? Also, enduros run 4 bikes per minute (so does Pikes Peak). Will you have multiple bike starts on each minute? THAT would be fun!

[J Cox]

I'm so excited about this!!! Eric, I wanna go off 4 per minute with you and bang bars on the stages!!!! I tried to talk the local/SCCA folks into trying something like this a few years ago, but got nowhere ("rally is for cars").

>Also, I think you should plan on a few extra ambulances. I
>am serious.

We've never had an ambulance at an enduro around here. LOTS of busted up riders, but NO life-threatening injuries in the 20 years I've been involved. I think the key to safety of enduro racing is no tulips, no notes, nothing but your eyes and a few arrows stapled to trees to judge what a safe speed is. And now that I think of it, most of the bad crashes were due to problems with the arrow placement... Now if you let riders have virtual co-driver like the Pikes cars, that would be a different safety situation! Oh, and by the way, we don't close the roads for our Enduro events, and still our insurance was only $444 per event last time I sanctioned one. Riders are responsible for their own medical insurance (or lack there of).

>
>Just food for thought. How much is entry?

Bingo, biggest problem I see is riders are used to paying $35 Enduro entry fees. If you offered even a $100 bike entry, the car guys would probably be pissed.


Also, enduros run
>4 bikes per minute (so does Pikes Peak). Will you have
>multiple bike starts on each minute? THAT would be fun!
>
Give us Trellborg Friction Spikes at SnoDrift and think how impressed the TV and spectators would be (4 riders jockey for position entering the corner take four different lines, dragging pegs at the apex, block passes, stuff jobs, then everyone carries the front wheel all the way through 6th gear down the straight to 80+ MPH, all on ice you can't stand on). Not on some fake track or plowed lake but on real roads Joe Average can identify with and would be affraid to drive a car 20 MPH on. THAT would get TV ratings.

Bike and car racing are very different paradyms, but I think it would be fun, challenging, and exciting to put them togther. Give the riders only a regular enduro route sheet (only simple L, R, or S instructions) and it might be a fair fight vs. the cars. This way bikes wouldn't "steal the thunder" from the cars since bikes would look slower over crests and entering corners (blind).

Sorry, got a little too excited,

Jim Cox
#558

[Eric Burmeister]

>We've never had an ambulance at an enduro around here. LOTS
>of busted up riders, but NO life-threatening injuries in the
>20 years I've been involved.

Yabut, Jim...this is different. Enduros are 24mph avg. on trails that you often have to wheelie-twitch the bars to get thru the trees...with cut bars. It is figured that you will make up time on the occasional fire road, but you never race on just twisty fire roads.

I can tell you from experience on rally roads with bikes that corners sneak up on you and you can go off fast and hard. Bikes on gravel (smattering of loose gravel on a hard clay base...like what we consider a good rally road) don't brake or turn for poo, but they sure do accelerate.

I always thought taking a motard bike on the clay roads of STPR would be heaven. After trying it, it's really too straight and fast. I'd still like to try the Cherokee Trails roads tho.:9

>Give us Trellborg Friction Spikes at SnoDrift...

I have some buddies that studded their bikes and raced down rivers in Minnesota last year. Phreaks. Pretty much what you just described.

Take a look here to see the kind of speed we're talking. Skip the single track stuff (and the crash and the huntin' dog) and go to about 5:45 to see the fire road stuff. This is blind with enough reserve to allow for traffic in the opposite direction and mindful that I was riding alone. There's an even faster (and longer) section at about 12:15. This stuff is all sand 2 track with whoops on worn out knobbies and wimpy springs.

http://www.burmeisterrallysport.com/images/rambunctious.ASF

Traction is better here than one would have on rally roads. What that means is that the speeds would be just as fast (smooth wider roads), but the braking and cornering traction would be way less.

I have to say tho, when I can do this for free, totally legally, it makes me wonder why I would want to pay to do it. If I could legally drive cars on roads the way we rally, I'd likely not rally due to the cost. I'm sure game to try it once, tho!

[Eric Burmeister]

>Give us Trellborg Friction Spikes at SnoDrift...

I just had visions of those 4 jumps in a row on Black River/Camp8. We'd get sick air.:+

[JC_595]

But you know Travis would try to double a set...

sick!


JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com

[J Cox]

>
>Yabut, Jim...this is different. Enduros are 24mph avg. on
>trails that you often have to wheelie-twitch the bars to get
>thru the trees...with cut bars. It is figured that you will
>make up time on the occasional fire road, but you never race
>on just twisty fire roads.

Must be a regional difference, because at almost every one of our MN, WI, IA enduros, at least once per racing they dumped us behid schedule onto forest roads with no check-out control and no reset, so then it was usually 0-5 miles of how-fast-does-your-bike-go on open roads. Once in Iowa, they did this onto a paved state highway and I ended up passing tractors, semis, etc. on paved state highways tucked to the tank just like the footage you see from baja. I'm not saying this was a good thing, we riders didn't like this (we loved the speed, but not the risk of pushign hard on open road). These situations usually only occured when the trail bosses (rally masters) didn't have personal race experience... That said, anytime you have a problem (crash, stuck, fowled plug, etc.) you can end up late on even the best designed course and end up needing to "speed" on the timekeeping (transit) sections.
>
>I can tell you from experience on rally roads with bikes that
>corners sneak up on you and you can go off fast and hard.
>Bikes on gravel (smattering of loose gravel on a hard clay
>base...like what we consider a good rally road) don't brake or
>turn for poo, but they sure do accelerate.
>
>I always thought taking a motard bike on the clay roads of
>STPR would be heaven. After trying it, it's really too
>straight and fast. I'd still like to try the Cherokee Trails
>roads tho.:9

No different than in your rally car, you gotta use good judgement or you crash. You're beginning to sound like a moto-head. ; ) You moto guys have no throttle control, just keep it twisted and ride using clutch, and are used to always having traction, and ... ; ) An XC guy would have no problem racing on a Rally course. ; )

>
>
>I have to say tho, when I can do this for free, totally
>legally, it makes me wonder why I would want to pay to do it.
>If I could legally drive cars on roads the way we rally, I'd
>likely not rally due to the cost. I'm sure game to try it
>once, tho!

Face it, you're at least partly in it for the glory/competition. If it was really only about the thrill of going fast, any of us could find a back corner of a state/national forest, do a slow sweep of the road, post a couple buddies with FRS at each end, then safely and legally "rally-for-free" all we want.

Jim Cox
#558

[tom grossmann]

Eric, ditto on the gravel roads and bikes. There only seems to be two lean angles on gravel about 8 degress and 90 degress.

ditto on the speeds of fire roads. I maybe a decent road racer and dirt tracker but I am notoriously slow on a motocross bike and on an XR200 I can maintian a 50 mph average. (the bike only does 62). My desert racing buddies usaully average about 70 mph on a fire road similar to what we rally on.

Finally we motorcyclists are cheap: I know an entry for Vintage MX is $30.

So these events woould have to be TSD's , of course if they were a TSD event with a pace to make the riding challanging I'd be interested.

Tom

[JC_595]

I'd like to have a go at Burma or Gratiot on my old KTM 250EXC.

http://www.gnimotorsports.com/00468798202.jpg

Man I miss that bike.

But not Delaware. That would be scary to try to run that fast. I dont have da bawls for dat.

Sometimes I wonder if the rally thing is really worth it. So much cheaper to haul the KTM up a couple hours north & ride a bike...

JC
#595
www.gnimotorsports.com

[FMF]

As a former Rallier? I guess, I don’t have a license any more, now avid biker I agree with Eric bets placed at bars and sub 10k ticket would make for interesting times but don’t forget someone can always get 20-30k 660 or better still that monster Blais Races In the Baja! But right now I am not feeling it really. Enduro/ Desert racing is much better but if they came up with a true Rally Raid Championship maybe 3 days a piece on rougher roads then I’m all in. That is definitely the setup though SM wheels on LC4 with dirt tires my 21 18 set up probably wouldn’t be best. The best thing it has going for it now is closed roads. We’ll see. Nearly free entry and not having to travel far might get me their though.

[Baconmotorsport]

Please do not laugh at this question but.... I have never been on a bike to speak of, so is it safe to assume if the car ran flat out against a bike given everything else being equal. would he car be faster?? I would guess yes.

[Shenan]

I've never been on a bike either, but my understanding is that the sport bikes (road or dirt) are much higher performance than cars. I think that is what Eric was referring to when he said you can get a WRC class machine at your local dealer for under $10k. It's much easier to get that kind of acceleration out of them because they are so lightweight.

[Eric Burmeister]

>Please do not laugh at this question but.... I have never
>been on a bike to speak of, so is it safe to assume if the car
>ran flat out against a bike given everything else being equal.
> would he car be faster?? I would guess yes.

Nothing to laugh at Bill. It would partially depend on the stage, but usually, I think a car (top spec Open with a good driver) would be faster. I also think a bike (with a good rider) would be faster than 80% of the current cars.

[Eric Burmeister]

>I've never been on a bike either, but my understanding is
>that the sport bikes (road or dirt) are much higher
>performance than cars. I think that is what Eric was referring
>to when he said you can get a WRC class machine at your local
>dealer for under $10k. It's much easier to get that kind of
>acceleration out of them because they are so lightweight.

I also mean that the bike you buy on the showroom floor is a couple thousand away from what the pros ride, that you are basically buying a works machine. A WRX on the showroom floor is about $200,000 away from a top open car.

In case you hadn't realized it, motorcycles are actually made to handle the rigors of these sports from the factory. When you buy a new motocross bike, they expect that it will be jumping over 100' triples and the frames are built to NOT break upon landing and the suspension is designed to soak it up. Cars were never designed to rally in the first place. Hence a rally car is a custom fabricated race car that has little to do with a street car...that is, if the builder builds it to go fast and to last.

Rallyists do things with cars that they were not designed to do. You have to be pretty creative to take a motorcycle outside its envelope, as Travis is testament to.

[jose vicente]

Some organizers in Spain and Portugal have been doing this for some time. The bikes run after the cars and there are a couple of classes ranging from production bikes to raid bikes. They run them after the cars because the road is more chewed up then, and more challenging by raid standards. The championship combines dates from the Spanish gravel rally championship and dates from the nattional raid championship. Guys like Marc Coma and Nani Roma used to run these events regularly, and they usually get 20 to 40 entries. Should make an interesting park expose.

[Ivan Orisek]

>>I've never been on a bike either, but my understanding is
>I also mean that the bike you buy on the showroom floor is a
>couple thousand away from what the pros ride, that you are
>basically buying a works machine.

The pros also ride $150,000 motorcycles.

[Eric Burmeister]

>
>The pros also ride $150,000 motorcycles.

Aye, but with our sprint type events (assuming you're letting us service at the same service stops) one can go faster on a converted dirt bike than on an uberexpensive unobtanium raid bike. No need for the monster engine when you have a 210lb. bike and only need to carry 2 gallons of fuel. You wind up with a faster, cheaper, lighter, and (dare I say) much safer motorcycle to ride.

I don't think raiding on bikes is long for this earth after we lost another KTM rider at Dakar this year. To carry all that fuel they need big engines and that means big weight and that means probability of death goes up in a high speed get off.

Think of what Mickey Dymond was on at Pikes Peak. With lights. That is under 15,000. A 525SM bored and stroked to around 650 with decent cams will get about 70hp. With six speeds. At a smidge over 200#. Yum.

I just got a 210W stator and GSXR regulator for mine so I can mount one of my 150W rally lights and an HID. I just wish you were doing bikes at Cherokee.



All my cars are slow.

www.supermotojunkie.com

[madmann28]

was checking out ALCAN rally stuff.
this summer bikes & cars.

bikes after cars, who wants to be the first car on the road to find a heap of motorcycle injury?
after cars means sweep/help gets on course that much faster.

[wvonkessler]

>>Please do not laugh at this question but.... I have never
>>been on a bike to speak of, so is it safe to assume if the
>car
>>ran flat out against a bike given everything else being
>equal.
>> would he car be faster?? I would guess yes.
>
>Nothing to laugh at Bill. It would partially depend on the
>stage, but usually, I think a car (top spec Open with a good
>driver) would be faster. I also think a bike (with a good
>rider) would be faster than 80% of the current cars.
>
>

Evo VIII stock v. KTM: http://www.spdmag.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=1405&print_page=y


"Rallying is not easy at all sometimes. If you are not lucky, you are not lucky, and if you are lucky, you are lucky - everything works well. But today was, today was not so lucky."

Tommi Makkinen - 2001 RAC Rally

[Ivan Orisek]

>"Rallying is not easy at all sometimes. If you are not lucky,
>you are not lucky, and if you are lucky, you are lucky -
>everything works well. But today was, today was not so
>lucky."
>
>Tommi Makkinen - 2001 RAC Rally


"I drive more fast and I have many luck."

Didier Auriol

[Mike Hurst]

>
>But not Delaware. That would be scary to try to run that fast.

http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/hofimages/morehead2_s.jpg

Many of our stages would look more like flat track racing.

...damn this sounds like fun!

[tom grossmann]

People often wonder why I don't get excited about big horsepowers cars........after bikes all cars are slow. A Corvette or Viper can't compare to a 90 HP 235lb TZ250.

If you think an EVO or WRX is fast I suggest you go for a ride on a CR500.

The big deal here is as Eric said, for low dollars ($6000)I can waltz into the dealer and buy a full race bike that will outperform all but the fastest cars.Oh and the kicker is that it will go all season on nothing but tires and oil changes.

I am really curious to see how this pans out


Tom

[mvb]

I like the idea and support this new venture. However, NASA needs to decide if these events are going to be casual strolls through the forest on heavy, sluggish, poorly suspended bikes or 10/10ths racing with proper racing equipment.

WA State and is well-known for their LACK of support for anything ORV related. KTM's and Husky's are about the only street-legal race bikes you see around here.

That being said, here are my suggestions for the first event here in WA:

1. Dump "street legal" and "insurance" from your vocabulary
2. Centrally located service area for the bikes
3. Limit ALL transits to dirt roads (even if it means reducing the # of stages)
4. Include 2-3 trail sections in per day to break things up

[Anders Green]

MVB:
>That being said, here are my suggestions for the first event here in WA:
>
>1. Dump "street legal" and "insurance" from your vocabulary
>2. Centrally located service area for the bikes
>3. Limit ALL transits to dirt roads (even if it means reducing
>the # of stages)
>4. Include 2-3 trail sections in per day to break things up

So, for the first time that anyone tries this (in recent times, in the States) you want to

1) have two entirely different sets of legal issues, one for the street legal and insured cars, and one for the bikes
2) have different service areas for the bikes if the ones for the cars are not centrally located
3) re-write the entire rally to only use dirt roads (that probably would have been used for stages already if they existed?)
4) in additional to the already difficult and complicated process of securing roads and finding marshals for them, create 2-3 more 'stages' that would require even more resources

I don't see how it can't work. }(

Shouldn't we have at least _one_ of these things and see how it goes?

Cheers,
Anders

[Eric Burmeister]

Oh and the kicker is that
>it will go all season on nothing but tires and oil changes.

Don't forget that a drum of fuel is replaced by a 5 gal. can for the day. :-)

That evo comparo is kinda corny. The 950 Adv. is no performance motorcycle. Kinda like comparing a jet fighter to 747.

Do a 560SM or this beautiful new V-twin Aprilia SM and then we can talk about performance differential...

http://www.moto-station.com/ttesimages/motodivers/Aprilia_SVX_4.5_racing_stpz.jpg

motoporn.


Let me just put my bid in right now to volunteer to be "Bike 0"

I think this'll sell...

http://www.supermotoracer.com/Wallpapers/smrscreentrachya.jpg

http://www.supermotoracer.com/Wallpapers/Currie_sm.jpg

[2023maple]

Eric B. / Jim C.,
Sounds like you guys have done alot of enduroing in the midwest. When? Where? may have bumped bars with you guys before. How about Roselawn, IN? (one of my personal favorites) Morrison, IL? Black River Falls, WI? And many points in between. Used to race a KTM300exc in the open class (1996-2000) then took a few years off picked up a 2003 CRF450 (had to sell the 300 and Ktm640) and harescrambled a couple years and then parked it for the Neon. Giving me goosebumps thinking what a stage would feel like with that thing tapped out on a L5+. Feet up and smiling wide!

Bryan

[tom grossmann]

Eric I was thinking the same thing about the KTM adventure.....it being the gold wong of off road bikes.

5 gallons of gas would probably cover riding to and from a local event as well.

That Aprilia is very nice but doesn't look risky enough......I prefer tank slapping wet noodle framed XR75's and XR100's for serious fun. You guys on open class stuff always ride so smooth and look in control all the time........no bouncing off one obstacle into another lap after lap. I've gotten so used to being a passentger on my own bike there is no going back now :D

Tom

[mvb]

>MVB:
>>That being said, here are my suggestions for the first event
>here in WA:
>>
>>1. Dump "street legal" and "insurance" from your vocabulary
>>2. Centrally located service area for the bikes
>>3. Limit ALL transits to dirt roads (even if it means
>reducing
>>the # of stages)
>>4. Include 2-3 trail sections in per day to break things up
>
>So, for the first time that anyone tries this (in recent
>times, in the States) you want to
>
>1) have two entirely different sets of legal issues, one for
>the street legal and insured cars, and one for the bikes
>2) have different service areas for the bikes if the ones for
>the cars are not centrally located
>3) re-write the entire rally to only use dirt roads (that
>probably would have been used for stages already if they
>existed?)
>4) in additional to the already difficult and complicated
>process of securing roads and finding marshals for them,
>create 2-3 more 'stages' that would require even more
>resources
>
>I don't see how it can't work. }(
>
>Shouldn't we have at least _one_ of these things and see how
>it goes?
>
>Cheers,
>Anders

I guess I'm not one to half-ass something. If you're going to do it; do it right. My fear is the license/insurance requirements will preclude the vast majority of potential racers. 95+% of the race-ready dirt bikes in WA state are not licensed for use on the road.

I've reached out to the folks at NASA and offered help understanding the local motorcycle racing arena. If NASA is serious about hosting motorcycle 'racing' event then they will need to do the following:

- Read my 4 comments above
- Partner with 1 of the many local organizations that host enduro's and cross country races in the area and let them do help with logistics.

Puget Sound Enduro Riders (home of past WildWest events) holds two enduro races/year miles from many of the stage roads and based from the county airfield/fairground, exactly where WildWest service has been in the past.

[Eric Burmeister]

You guys on open class stuff
>always ride so smooth and look in control all the
>time...

No. I'm just slow.

2 of my buddies and I have TTR125s (okay, technically, its my girlfriend's), and that is where the real backyard battles happen.

2023, I did a few harescrambles (slow), a couple enduros as a kid in Moorestown (slower), and a couple years of Class C motocross (slowest).

Now I just enjoy trailriding and the occasional farting around on a track. Road racing tracks, motocross tracks, kart tracks, supermoto tracks...they are all fun with a quick tire change. Camping and riding up north is where its at, tho. Street legal so you can run into town for a burger.

[tom grossmann]

I had started down the path of riding the XR100 class at Super Moto but thought better of it when I started saying I think I can win. The Vintage MX stuff is good fun cause it's all old guys with bad knees and folks are not in a hurry to crash and my old YZ100 is slow.

Tom

PS We sometimes run the little XR75 around our rally-X course before we clean up.

[FMF]

Eric b Wrote
>I don't think raiding on bikes is long for this earth after we
>lost another KTM rider at Dakar this year. To carry all that
>fuel they need big engines and that means big weight and that
>means probability of death goes up in a high speed get off.

I agree that heavy bikes laden with fuel is part of the problem but, I disagree that Rally Raiding bikes is almost over. People have been dying at it for years and that hasn't stopped them yet. Also why not just solve the problem? i.e. lighter bikes. I think another part of the problem is the situation itself it has become more "Race" than "Adventure" and they are trying to bring that back. 2 pronged attack eliminate the monsters they have now, replace them with more advanced (fuel injected) more production bikes (think Group N) with privateers on them. I think both these moves are underway and will become reality if not this next year the one after. Mostly because it takes time to develop new bikes and just get reoriented.

[FMF]

>was checking out ALCAN rally stuff.
>this summer bikes & cars.
>
>bikes after cars, who wants to be the first car on the road
>to find a heap of motorcycle injury?
>after cars means sweep/help gets on course that much faster.

Who wants to come around a corner on a bike and find a heap of car blocking the road? Better still two, one trying to tow out the other. Bikes tend to stop in the woods or ditch along with rider. But the challenge would be a lot better when the roads are all rutted up and we are capable of going around cars if properly warned.

[Eric Burmeister]

Ugh. Please don't mention the words "Group N" and "motorcycle" in the same sentence. I would hate to see FIM get as mired in bureaucratic BS as players in the FIA are.

Actually AMA has had a "production bike" (or "no works bike") rule for years. Of course, motorcycles are built to the task, so it makes sense.

As for Dakar, I expect big changes before another one goes off. Caldecott killed this year. Meoni and Perez killed last year. A 5 year old kid and a 12 year old kid killed in 06. The world press focuses on the deaths more than the win.

Yamaha had the formula, just needs refinement. The Ohlins hydraulic 2wd system on a WR450 or similar single is the future for light bikes in the desert. Once they get the development sorted.