Notifying local EMS of your event?

[John Cassidy]

Just wondering how often/how many organizers contact their local EMS system prior to an event to give them a heads up that the event will be occurring?

Every year before Maine Forest/NEFR, I notify the local medical director of the EMS helicopter program that we'll be out playing in the woods.

In the past, I've wondered if there was pre-planning of helicopter landing zones and instruction for event medical staff on how to set up a landing zone if the need arises?

Questions with your local Level 1 Trauma Center(if you have one) will often lead to other questions/concerns with your event medical staff and air medical service.

If the EMS system has an idea of what we do and what we're inside of, then it may help if a response is needed.

I've wondered whether or not a Life Flight/Med Flight company might be able to have a helicopter on site on standby and perhaps justify it from a PR standpoint? Just thinking aloud.

The reality is that any seriously injured patient on event will most likely be airlifted out to the nearest trauma center. Making this part of the pre-event planning is key.

Some info from the Maine EMS helicopter service:

http://www.lifeflightmaine.org/dynamic.aspx?id=10134

Cheers! John

[Bruce]

Just wondering how often/how many organizers contact their local EMS system prior to an event to give them a heads up that the event will be occurring?



It's a part of every safety plan I've ever seen...and that's a lot. Many do MUCH more that merely inform.

BRUCE

[John Cassidy]

Great news Bruce. I know that it was NOT part of the safety plan at some events, even as recently as 5 years ago.

Can you elaborate on how far beyond informing the plan extends? Might be helpful to other organizers that are not too familiar with EMS.

Regards, John

[Morison]

Just wondering how often/how many organizers contact their local EMS system prior to an event to give them a heads up that the event will be occurring?
Oddly, one of the questions I'd rather not know the answer to.
It's on a list of questions that if I start asking I probably wouldn't compete again when I hear the answers.

[John Cassidy]

Keith, that's exactly what I found to be the case when I started asking a few years ago(at local events). Started asking whether we had basic or Paramedic EMS staff on the ambulances at event, etc.

I'm not sure if the sanctioning bodies require a certain base level of EMS preparation for events if it's simply left to the organizers to do the best they can?

In wake of Travis' accident and others over recent years, I always think about who's going to pull me out of the woods when I'm critically injured. Not morbid thinking, just proactive thinking from someone that's had a big ride into the woods/trees a couple of times! ;-)

John

[flatOVERcrest]

Oddly, one of the questions I'd rather not know the answer to.
It's on a list of questions that if I start asking I probably wouldn't compete again when I hear the answers.

Keith, well let's not keep it under a rock then.
As licensed competitors I think we have the right to have all answers given to us, and in a very clear way too. Thanks for starting the thread John.

[flatOVERcrest]

In wake of Travis' accident and others over recent years, I always think about who's going to pull me out of the woods when I'm critically injured. Not morbid thinking, just proactive thinking from someone that's had a big ride into the woods/trees a couple of times! ;-)

John

Same here.

[Morison]

Keith, well let's not keep it under a rock then.
Agreed.
In an interesting analogy, I have a fatal allergy to nuts. For years I was also told that I had an allergy to epinephrine. Even though I have since been told that an epi pen would be OK for me to use in the face of an allergic reaction to nuts, I still don't carry one.
I take it as MY responsibility to make sure that I don't eat nuts and only see an epi pen as something that would let me lower my guard.
To bring that back on topic.
I honestly think that the first step in all of this is to understand the calculated risks we are taking and to manage the risks accordingly. (my track record kinda sucks this year though.)

As an organizer I know that there are SO many more pieces to the puzzle than 'if local ems knows.'

As a competitor should I have the right to ask how many blockers are HAM radio equipped? can I review the radio protocols so I understand how cars are being tracked and the max distance between radio points? Do I ask if the blockers all speak the same language I do? Does net control understand english? (language concerns in Quebec as I don't have enough French to count ... but their net is on commercial radio bands, not HAM.)

That's the tip of the iceberg.

Anyone that knows me knows I tend to take this stuff pretty seriously. Ultimately, the only other person I will trust with my life is the driver or co-driver I choose to run with.

[flatOVERcrest]

I honestly think that the first step in all of this is to understand the calculated risks we are taking and to manage the risks accordingly. (my track record kinda sucks this year though.)

I agree completely. Also my record this year is weird (5 wins and 5 crashes I believe). But my driver is not going to slow down (nor I'm going to tell him to) just because we aren't sure how many road blockages there are on a stage or how many ambulances the organizers has on duty or if the workers are bilingual or not..
It's a competitive sport we participate at.



As a competitor should I have the right to ask how many blockers are HAM radio equipped? can I review the radio protocols so I understand how cars are being tracked and the max distance between radio points? Do I ask if the blockers all speak the same language I do? Does net control understand english? (language concerns in Quebec as I don't have enough French to count ... but their net is on commercial radio bands, not HAM.)


Keith, why not? http://www.supermotojunkie.com/images/smilies/headscratch.gif
When we talk about competitors and workers SAFETY, all should be considered.

[Bruce Beauvais]

When we planned our last "new" event, we did scout possible landing zones for air evacuation. It would be wise to check to see what the local protocols are. In Michigan, they vary from county to county.
I was at a racetrack when an on-track accident triggered an inquiry about Air evac availability. The next thing we knew, the local fire department showed up. Turns out that the local protocol calls for the local fire department to secure the LZ. The mere question
of availibility set the protocol in motion.
In the rural areas we typically use, areas clear enough set a helo down might be had to find. I'd like to think that LZs are preplanned with the local EMS people. Leave incident by ambulance to preplanned LZ and air to Trauma Center is perhaps the likely the best we can expect.

[Morison]

Keith, why not? http://www.supermotojunkie.com/images/smilies/headscratch.gif
Maybe in general, overall terms - yes. But do you really expect that an organiser should be expected to field (the same) questions about their safety plans from all the teams when they have been reviewed and approved by the sanctioning body already?

[jfitz]

In the rural areas we typically use, areas clear enough set a helo down might be had to find. I'd like to think that LZs are preplanned with the local EMS people. Leave incident by ambulance to preplanned LZ and air to Trauma Center is perhaps the likely the best we can expect.

Where I'm from (Ontario) we (EMS staff) along with the fire services take care of all the planning as far as landing zones go. Preplanning is only in depth as knowing where the local airport/helipad/big enough area is in that particular municipality.

*Addendum- I'm only speaking of my municipality and cannot speak for others.

To the OP....great thread.

[Bruce]

At the event I'm most familiar with, the chief of EMS is radio-linked to the local ambulance dispatcher, who in turn can dispatch a chopper. The medical people at the start of every stage are usually EMTs - and race-trained EMTs as well, familiar with helmets and cages. The safety plan for each stage has procedures for coordination between on-stage personnel and amubulances...who, in turn, are familiar with chopper LZs and other local information.

With local variations, I believe most events are similarly organized. Many events, for example, have local ambulances at stage starts.

Bruce

[starion887]

When we planned our last "new" event, we did scout possible landing zones for air evacuation. It would be wise to check to see what the local protocols are. In Michigan, they vary from county to county.
I was at a racetrack when an on-track accident triggered an inquiry about Air evac availability. The next thing we knew, the local fire department showed up. Turns out that the local protocol calls for the local fire department to secure the LZ. The mere question
of availibility set the protocol in motion.
In the rural areas we typically use, areas clear enough set a helo down might be had to find. I'd like to think that LZs are preplanned with the local EMS people. Leave incident by ambulance to preplanned LZ and air to Trauma Center is perhaps the likely the best we can expect.

This all makes sense to me from what I have learned (and I am no expert). In WV, the local F&R (VFD with extraction equipment and pumper truck at each stage start) will use their 450 MHz UHF radio comm to call for life flight. They know the LZ's; the backup LZ is the airport. We have ambulances with paramedics at the start of each stage, and all their support/vehicles/crew is arranged with the county EMS manager, so this is all well known to them. We also inform the E911 center and give them skeds as well as the state and local police.

My only challenge is to keep the units all mindful our event dates. I hand out material with preliminary skeds several months ahead, and some units always lose them. But, they are always ready to go when the time comes, and many of my best relationships in the rally area seem to be developing around the VFD and EMS guys. After sitting in several of their bi-monthly county-wide VFD meetings, one hears some of what they do the other 363 days of the year. The VFD folks are people who we are all VERY lucky to have in our midst, in rallying, or just everyday life.

Regards,
Mark B.

[RichardM]

A gentle suggestion for those national competitors who want to know how us organizers are taking care of them: become a regional organizer. Join the committee that puts on the event. Volunteer to do what ever is needed which may be Porta Potty relocation (photos of me doing this at Rallye de Paris available on request). Do not expect to get the 'fun' jobs of couse layout or course opening. At first, you will get the 'grunt' jobs but you may finally get to be chairman as John Buffum did for many years in Maine. And I bet he has had to move a potty or 2 over the years also.
Richard

[RichardM]

Maybe in general, overall terms - yes. But do you really expect that an organiser should be expected to field (the same) questions about their safety plans from all the teams when they have been reviewed and approved by the sanctioning body already?
Keith,
Not quite sure how CARS events are organized but for RA events, we have to prepare a single document called: Safety Plan. I am sure every organizer would send this to thse interested but then, this being the Internet, I am also sure this would cause much weeping and wailing as some competitors would object to not having a course opening car just ahead of them to keep the deer out of the road, move big rocks that have been kicked into the line, etc. :)
Rally organizer from Texas

[Bruce]

Any organizer worth the name will have a safety plan that goes far beyond just emergencies, and in fact covers everything from road marshals to lead cars to sweeps to...yes...EMS response. It specifies EVERYTHING that's done to keep the event safe. As Richard points out, this is required by Rally America's Operations Manual, and is reviewed not only by someone in an office, but also by the event Safety Steward, whose job includes assuring that the things in the safety plan are actually being done.

Sometimes it's published online, and maybe it should always be...but that's not required.

Bruce

[rallytaff]

<<< A gentle suggestion for those national competitors who want to know how us organizers are taking care of them: become a regional organizer. >>>

Richard, why be gentle? I've noticed on these forums that some of the biggest whiners are in fact so called top running teams, always suggesting organizers do and that, but won't lower themselves to go out and help out at a Regional event.

Could be yet another reason why I quit!

[rally99]

In Alberta, our HAM Radio net control is also very heavily involved in the search and rescue organization, so before the event starts, we have a bunch of possible landing zones charted, as well as a few other advantages that wouldn't happen with someone else ( direct radio link with emergency dispatch for Southern Alberta etc. )

The most important thing that is often overlooked if a helicopter is requiered, a landing area can be found in a hurry IF SOMEONE HAS A GPS, this has been an issue with an ambulance service he volunteers with in the past and highly recommends it as required that cource closing and the medical teams both carry GPS recievers - even the $75 basic model will do what is needed

[Mopar Mikey]

I am part of the SWEEP Crew for the Pacific Northwest and what we do is get the GPS location in those special landing zones. Number those zones and make sure Life flight has a copy.The it saves of the mistake of not giving the right GPS cords. Just tell them Zone one and you know where they will be. Another helpful thing is having local Emts with the sweep crew or close by because they no what protocall is. WA and OR they ride with the crew and we call our selves E-Crew.
Mikey

[katnip]

As an organizer of the first snow event for rallymoto you better believe I have EMS notified. I always have, but with the bikes I am being extra careful.

EMT in both sweeps (if I loose one to injury transport, I still have a spare)
National First Responder in the moto sweep
Two paid ambulances on either end of a given stage with atleast, 2 basics on each rig, usually end up with a couple medics on the rigs as well.
the skid pad here at Team O'Neil is capable of landing a chopper for the ride to Darmouth, if necessary.
Town of Dalton Fire rescue central to each stage with the jaws, if necessary.
Two hospitals within a 5-10 minute ambulance ride.

I have actually had EMT's here to show them a rally car and the constraints they would be working with should they be needed.

Now I just hope I pay for all this coverage for NOTHING!!:D

[leftHanddrive]

I'm so glad to read this thread, and that it's expanded to include more than just giving the local medical resources a heads up about an event. I'll be clear that my comments are based on my take on things as a codriver, fledgling organizer and health care worker.

It's pretty easy to assume that everything will be fine if anything ever goes wrong, but waiting until the system is tested to find out it fails is insensible and irresponsible. I'm not in any way suggesting that organizers make such assumptions, but depending on the situation, sometimes there's only a few things that really make a difference to outcome/survival, and without careful consideration, the details and mechanics of ensuring that these few things are provided could be overlooked. Transportation, specifically transit time, is one example.

I suspect that organizers lose more sleep over rally safety than competitors can ever imagine, and as a competitor I wonder if I should be doing more to make sure that I am equipped and educated to be an effective participant if I am ever involved in the execution of an emergency plan.

[RichardM]

snip
I suspect that organizers lose more sleep over rally safety than competitors can ever imagine, and as a competitor I wonder if I should be doing more to make sure that I am equipped and educated to be an effective participant if I am ever involved in the execution of an emergency plan.

Know what is in your first aid kit and learn how to use it.

[Bruce]

Know what is in your first aid kit and learn how to use it.

Not to mention your fire extinguisher. First Responder training would be good...mostly because it teaches you how an incident is managed. I'd consider basic CPR a must.

Bruce

[RallyK]

I would be interested in attending a meeting about what to do if I come up to a wrecked car. Perhaps someone from EMS who specializes in race sports could teach it. It could be conveniently held before a rally like a novice meeting. In fact, it should be required just like the novice meetings.
I have CPR/AED/First Aid training but it would be nice to learn the best way to get someone out of a burning car.
CARS requires CPR training, not sure about RA and NASA. They've never asked me before. The next rally car coming will be the first person on scene. I certainly would want them to know CPR and how to get me out of a car!

Side note: Do you know where your tool is to break your window or cut your belts? I know where mine is but will someone else be able to find it?

[weavus4]

At the EMS level there is a whole race track/ race car program EMT's and medics can attend. I will look into seeing if there is a civilian class available and if not try to come up with one through a non profit i work for.
http://www.specialoperationsfoundation.org/sos/

Matt

[ihbobry]

EMT intergraion as part of the safety plan sounds rather basic to me, I would think a sanctioning body would push down such organizational requirements as part of the insurance coverage.

I would hope the Jaws are on the ambulance @ more spread out rallies not at a central location (your rally is so compact Kathy that it's not such a concern to me) because if I remember the Sprongal accident @ STPR it took upwards of 15-20 minutes for the ambulance to make it to the scene and can only imagine if they had to call in or send someone onto the radio (a second time) for the jaws how long he would have been in the car...

[weavus4]

most jaws are not kept on ambulances they normally need a hydraulic pump and stored on engines.

[RichardM]

There are hand powered jaws that can be carried in an ambulance.