Rim 2003 - Letter from the organizers

[SoPacRallySteward]

I just received a note, and permission from the organizers to share, stating that the Rim of the World Rally for 2003 will be a pair of club rallies without a pro component.

Edited to include the text of the letter.




Why Return Rim of the World to the ClubRally-only Level?

Background:

For the past few years RIM (like all ProRally events) has experienced significant growth in all areas. Despite the stress associated with this growth, RIM this year was a huge success. We had an 80-car field, which was 13 more cars than last year and 28 more than two years ago. Subaru of America made RIM a special ?owners event? and brought over WRC Subaru Team driver Petter Solberg as a VIP guest. This attracted nearly 700 Subaru owners from all over the West Coast. In preparation for this attention we doubled the number of spectator areas and tripled the number of spectator marshals - a good thing. Subaru, Hyundai and Mitsubishi set up displays with tents, giveaways, and cars to show. They wooed the crowd as well as the large number of ?heavy hitters? from the press that came to the event. Other automotive related vendors also were attracted, and participated.

Given the success of this year?s RIM, why are we not continuing to offer it to the ProRally Series? The following are the key reasons for this decision:

Performance Rally Department Attitude:
We have finally run out of patience with the Performance Rally Department?s lack of support for ProRally organizers. The only ?support? from SCCA, aside from excellent insurance coverage, is association with a championship series and its sponsors. There is no financial support, no real understanding of what is involved in putting on a big rally, and especially, no understanding of what motivates rally volunteers. In fact, the ProRally organizer will encounter roadblocks to growth.

Rather than developing a team effort to build the series, the Performance Rally Department exhibits an attitude of condescension and territoriality. Traditionally, SCCA has felt that it ?owns? each event and all the rights associated with it, as it might in a racing series - and a rally is lucky to be included. SCCA seems to feel that the rally organizer is analogous to the track owner, or perhaps to a race promoter. This is simply not a good analogy. Usually the U.S. Forest Service or some other agency owns the roads. The rally organizer secures the use of the roads and the other permits required, organizes the volunteer staff, and executes the event. When all is said and done it is the rally organizer that is financially responsible (and financially liable) for the event ? whether it is a simple committee, such as at Rim, or an SCCA region. The organizers do not generally make money on their rallies but are treated by SCCA as if they do, with the increasing expectations for performance that you might expect with a professional series.

In fact, the organizers face hurdles if they wish to become truly professional ? and a few of them do. In the sanction agreement SCCA claims all media rights and requires organizers to obtain SCCA approval before lining up sponsors. The series sponsors are seen as more important than the event?s sponsors, which was the justification given for taking down our local sponsor?s ?paid for? banners and replacing them with the Series sponsors? banners at RIM 2001. ProRally organizers are strongly encouraged to stick to ?local? sponsors and local media coverage and are not given any support in making their events marketable.

The ProRally organizers have been trying, since our meeting together in August, to have meaningful negotiations with SCCA concerning the sanction agreement, and have made only limited progress. There have been phone conferences with Kurt and a meeting with both Kurt and Steve Johnson at the convention. Kurt has insisted on negotiating with each organizer individually, using delay tactics to force the organizer to accept a less than desirable agreement. The sanction agreements for both Cherokee Trails and RIM were not signed until the week of their respective events. This is not negotiating in good faith.

We feel this is an unacceptable situation. The organizer of a ProRally should not have to fight with the sanctioning body over basic event ownership issues.

Financial and Organizational Viability:

RIM has achieved its current level of ?professional appearance? by various bootstrapping and shoestring approaches. Many products and services are donated at half price or less, because we put on the event as a non-profit operation. Volunteers are used for numerous tasks that require significant manual labor. In fact, volunteers do almost everything including the publicity brochure, the official program, the press releases and website, clearing and repairing the roads, staffing the event, building and tearing down the spectator stage and performing many other operations that lead to a successful and professional looking rally.

The problem with this approach is that it becomes more and more difficult to maintain as the event grows. All volunteers have a limited amount of time that they are willing to give to the event, especially in the months before the actual rally when the critical planning and coordination between team leaders takes place. This produces the need for a very large number of team leaders to do all the pre-event work. We had nearly 300 volunteers this year, including 44 key people or team leaders. Sustaining a volunteer organization of this size is a difficult task. This is compounded when growth is involved. Growth increases the demands on the 44 key people causing some to quit because the time commitment has exceeded what they are willing to give. Combining growth-induced staff turnover with normal attrition can produce an unstable organization. All in all, this is not a sustainable approach for a big event.

Why is RIM organized in this shoestring manner? The answer is simple. Sponsors do not place enough value on ProRally to pay what it would cost to organize the event in a sustainable fashion. If the rally had a budget that allowed it to build a stable structure and hire out many of the tasks required, continued growth in the promotional areas of the event (for example, spectator stages and spectator-friendly service areas) would be feasible. However, with the current financial constraints, we feel attempting to keep up with the growth in the sport will lead to failure.

Pro Only or Club Only:

One area where growth has a defined limit is in the number of competitors. RIM is limited to 80 cars by the Angeles National Forest. We were right at that limit this year, starting 80 cars on Friday night. If an organizer has to limit entries, the new ProRally Rules require the rally to accept the entries of the cars in the higher seeds first. This will in fact eliminate cars from the ClubRally field, while having little impact on the ProRally field. For these reasons it won?t be long before most combined ProRally/ClubRally events will have to choose between being a ProRally-only event or returning to being a ClubRally. Two events (STPR and Maine Forest) have already chosen to be ProRally-only events. Given that the growth in entries continues (and interest in our local rally schools indicates that it will), RIM will need to make this decision in 2003 or certainly by 2004.

Faced with this decision, and considering the first two reasons, we have chosen to return to being a ClubRally-only pair of events, beginning in 2003.

/s/ Mike and Paula Gibeault, June 6, 2002

[Chris Powell]

Did Rim fall victim to the same fate as Prescott? What a shame if that's the case. If it's not smooth roads, then it's not good enough for the manufacturers and thus the SCCA, or what? Is this an SCCA decision or organizer decision...more info please.

CP
Desert Storm Rally
A2 Jetta #305

[Mad Mike]

>Is this an SCCA decision or organizer
>decision...more info please.

This was the event organizer's decision, not SCCA's.

Halley ...
http://www.realautosport.com

[sumit]

umm...interesting.

i spoke with Paula at STPR and she didn't mention anything like this. Anyone know why?

[MDBodnar]

Will the message be heard? I doubt it.


I have not fully processed my thoughts yet but I can speak as one organizer (only one of many, only one of our events committee). We are stretched thin and the lack of good will, good spirit, and good support does not provide the needed enthusiasm to sustain the level of volunteers needed to continue the development seen in the sport in the last two years.

Folks there is a lot of SCCA bashing, some of it is legitimate, and given the current realities, this is an admirable decision.

One additional thought: the most promotable event in the series has opted out, the one attended best by the Manufacturers, a showcase -- that should say a lot.

Yours in the sport,
Mike

[Denise McMahon]

The reason why Paula did not want to mention this at STPR is because she did not want to put the Rim effect on STPR. I think that is very admirable of her. Yes, some of us.... Pat and I were somewhat upset that Pro Rally was going away on Rim at first, but do understand what SCCA has done to some organizers....."but we are going to make the bast dam and the largest club rally in the nation for 2003" as per Mike and Paula told us in a report to the other key committee members. So Pat and I will support their decision and will be staying to help them out to make this club rally the best one in the USA. So we urge you to support their decision and believe me it was not a decision that was made over night. They thought this through very carefully and for a long time pondering what to do. So again.... I urge you to give them your support on making Rim a club rally event again. Thank you.

Denise McMahon
Rim Of The World Rally

[Norcalrallyist]

So next year only 9 events? Will there be a replacement? Hopefully one in California :)

[Andy M]

Thanks for posting that letter. I, and I'm sure everyone else, was really interested in why this happened. It sure did seem like this year's event was just the beginning of bigger and better things. I understand why the Gibeaults decided to take this course of action, but of course it's disappointing that we won't be seeing ProRally cars on the west coast any longer.

I'm sure this idea has been tossed around quite a bit, but just in desperation I'll mention it anyway: What about the possibility of Rim being split up into a ProRally and ClubRally, run as separate events? They could be organized by separarate groups of people, as well... there are a lot of people saying they want to organize and event, and a Rim of the World ClubRally seems like it would be a great thing to be in charge of. Well... their decision seems pretty final.

Also wanted to add that SCCA is foolish not to realize that they're making a huge mistake not supporting rally. Although it's probably one of their smaller series', rallying is the future of auto racing in the US... The percentage of young people (like myself) interested in rallying is much greater than those interested in road racing-- Trans-Am, or otherwise. Just hope they can get their act together.. any chance that Rim will be back in 2004? Or, pray for the WRC to realize what a great rally it is, and take advantage of it!

[Bill Barfoot]

9? that number may be a bit optemistic...

[Denise McMahon]

No, not unless SCCA change their tactics of supporting rallys and give the CREDIT to the organizers and workers for their efforts.
Oh yes, that was Pat and I first choice that the WRC gives us support or maybe somebody else but we have kept that to ourselves.

Well I have a connection to SKY SPORTS... the producer wants to air Rim on British TV, but I think that will not happen now; since SCCA owns the rights to airing the Pro Rally series (which that is understandable). So many over there were interested on seeing American rallys on TV. I mean they wanted to air the program right away! Well we will see.. Michael Jones from the UK will keep me posted if the producer was successful on getting the tape for them to air.

Denise McMahon
Co=Organizer
Rim Of The World Rally
www.rimoftheworldrally.com

[Andy M]

Yea... figures. Well, if my vote counts for anything, you guys do a fantastic job! Thanks.

[robm]

Er, this is going to be a really dumb question, but I'm going to ask because I would like to learn more.

The question/thought:
What would it take to "jump ship" on the SCCA and join some sort of World rally association? Is this something that can be done or is even worth trying? The only "money" at stake at this point consists of SCCA memberships and event costs, right?

Please note that I don't understand the nuances of the ProRally/SCCA relationship, but it seems to be a bit abusive, so getting out seems like an option.

Rob

[randyzimmer]

HOOORAY!
rz

[Denise McMahon]

Hopefully there could be another sanctioning body besides SCCA.
Denise McMahon
Rim Of The World Rally

[Morgan]

I am in no way defending the SCCA, but I want to point out that the The SCCA pays Replica Productions (although with money from the manufacturers, that is why they get the most coverage)and brokered the deal with speedchannel. So it is understandable that they would own the rights to the show. The FIA and Dave Richards own the rights to any TV footage, even if it is your own personal in car video. So you would have the same issues either way, except that Richards is much more savy than the SCCA

[Timmerman_Paul]

Another of the Rim Organizers here...

The other options that have come up in this thread so far
have been discussed. You will notice that Mike and Paula
did not indicate they wanted to ditch SCCA. They state the
opposite, that they want to stay within SCCA, but not as a
ProRally event. Other options were available, and they did
not choose them. The CNAR layer is really not appropriate as
it is not a self supporting series in itself, and does not offer
insurance to organizers.

Splitting the thing into two Pro / Club still means all the
head aches of putting on a Pro event. You just handed an
overworked team 2X the work, so that one wont fly either.

We very well may make the 80 car limit next year without the
Pro Circus coming to town. We will have plenty of fast west
coast cars to put on a show, and I suspect the spectators will
not be lacking either.

Paul Timmerman
Chief of Spectator Areas - Rim of the World, Club Rally

[Bill Barfoot]

The thing that some people miss is that the SCCA is TAKING all rights to an event they don't own/support/pay for/help/organize/volunteer. They are demanding things from organizers that is not fair to all the effort involved. I can understand them wanting to air their show, but a Pro event CANNOT put on their own show unless it is just local, and then it is limited to 10% of the event.

[JohnLane]

Hey Mike, Paula and the Rim organizing crew.......I applaud your efforts at bringing YOUR event back to the competitors. Am I safe to assume that you may be able to offer your pair of Club Rallys at an entry fee of perhaps something under $1000.00 without the Dog and Pony show? We here on the West coast have enough good drivers to make our own show.
Perhaps we on the West Coast can have our own 'West Coast' amateur championship. I am looking forward to attending your Club Rallys next year. Regards, JohnLane.

[Jon Bogert]

which was hugely successful with 60 entries, I was thinking, "why would any new organizer want to hold a ProRally anymore?"

You can have a positive event, with the small rally feel and friendly comraderie of a ClubRally, without having to put up with 30-person manufacturer entourages. And with plenty of entries you still have a comfortable breakeven for the event.

The SCCA should stick to what it does (reasonably) well: managing membership and licensure, managing the event rules, providing insurance and being a CLUB for rally enthusiasts.

[Subie Gal]

wow... shocked! bit of a suprise reading this...

But the explanation makes sense.
I hope I have the funding, time, energy and can justify the trip to Rim next year... Pro or Club event... it was a hell of a ride this year!!!
And I can appreciate all of the hard work that goes into an event of this size and stature. What a nightmare it must be at times!!

Paula/Mike and other organizers, volunteers - I would love to come down and support you regardless of the status of the rally. You guys just do "your thing" and do what's best for you, and your region. Hope to see you next year, if not sooner!

Best Regards -
Jamie
www.subiegalracing.com
www.subiegal.com

[Greg Donovan]

i hope this goes well for you!
as a future club competitor this sounds great. i may never make it to rim as a competitor but if a "showcase" rally is club it may make club more attractive to potential sponsors. and give club a higher level of national credibility.

[Denise McMahon]

Yes, I would say that the Gibeaults are not ditching SCCA, but certain people that take credit for something they do not do... which is put on the rally itself and you do need competitveness in any sport. I am not saying we should ditch SCCA, but make it aware that their are people that are not happy with their tactics and changes need to happen to enhance the sport, organizers support, etc. If it takes another sanctioning body to help displeased organizers then that is what it takes to open SCCA eyes. Do not get me wrong SCCA has a great organization, it just needs to fine tune one particular sport -Rally. So in that in tow that is all I have to say and I know several people feel the same way.

Denise McMahon
Co-Organizer
Rim Of The World Rally

[KristenT]

AndyM says that it's disappointing that there won't be any ProRally cars on the West Coast anymore.

Maybe that should have read, in Southern California anymore? Last time I checked, we still have Oregon Trail and Wild West in Oregon and Washington, respectively. :)

I have to say that I completely understand where Mike & Paula are coming from, and how they came to their decision. It must have been difficult, but what competitor who doesn't have a mint to spend on their car and licenses, wants to try a Pro-only event? I applaud Mike and Paula for thinking about the Club people, for wanting to not exclude them from future events.

It certainly is a shocker, to not have Rim (labelled country-wide as the toughest, and best, event in the series!) on the National calendar for 2003. Maybe this will be a wake-up call to the SCCA that they need to step up with the support to the organizers of all events on the National calendar.

Stick to your guns, Mike & Paula!

:)

[Ray Hocker]

It very important that the structure of CNAR (The Championship of North American Rallies) is not misunderstood or misrepresented. I can speak only as ?founding member? of the CNAR governing committee and not ?for? the committee and organization. It must be made clear that CNAR is NOT a sanctioning body and is not envisioned as becoming a sanctioning body. It is an organization of events that have banded together to form a North American Championship with the goal of creating a Zone Championship for the FIA in the near future.

For CNAR to succeed in reaching this goal, it must work closely and in cooperation with national sanctioning bodies and the FIA?s governing body in the U.S. (ACCUS). CNAR does not supply insurance or FIA listings for the member events. This year, two of the three CNAR events in the U.S. are part of the SCCA ProRally Championship and one (the Ramada Express International Rally) has been conducted for four years with private, individually secured insurance with it?s FIA listing and sanction provided through IMSA. The last thing the CNAR governing committee wants to do is be viewed as a rival by the sanctioning bodies of the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. Each of the seven member events (three in the U.S.) are united in the belief that our efforts only enhance and promote further growth for the sport in our countries.

Ray Hocker
Clerk of the Course
Ramada Express International Rally
CNAR Member Event

[Ray Hocker]

Mike and Paula have been, and will continue to be huge supporters of the sport. Thank you to all the Rim organizers both present and past for all the great work you've done.

[randyzimmer]

This is the same amature/pro SCCA debate that has been ongoing for years. SCCA is a great club of great people selflessly doing things because they like to. Then, the National office thinks they can build it into a money-making thing and fall on their ass because National doesn't add anything but "pomp" to the event - and the pomp is more pompus than show. The only good sponsors I can remember SCCA getting were Johnson's Wax and First Nat'l City in the old Can-Am. National promises a title sponsor but can never deliver. Now that Trans-Am has been farmed out to Sanchez' group, National has nothing better than Rally to goof up. The club has no money to invest and just makes demands of everyone to support the new "pomp". Added fees, added sanctions, added expenses for questionable benefit. ex: we had to pay the tech guy to look at plans of the Trans-Am car we were building, fly him from Denver to NY and back plus expenses and show him around the shop, otherwise, no homolugation for the car. Did it help the show or make sure the car wasn't illegal, no, it just cost money and a couple days production we could have used. At PRI I asked Kurt where the PRO in Pro Rally was (ie:purse) and his response was - if you can't afford it, stay in Club rallies. Steve Johnson was at STPR and made the long walk to the end of our street and stopped to talk to an obviously underfunded group, he even thanked us for coming and competing - Will things change? Can you run a rally on a concrete airfield, in a tornado?
rz

[Don Kennedy]

Having never been to a west coast event, I really can't comment on specifics. But I totally understand their position and I think we've heard some of the same issues from some other organizers and I applaud them for making a change that seems to be correct and timely for them. I for one am going to again write to the PRB and ask them when they are going to wake up and see the light (before the train hits them) and begin to work on a 3 tier system that we badly need. If things keep going this way they may be forced to go that route or their big boys won't have any place to play (atleast not the way they are now).

[saywhat]

I must say that that Rim is my favorite event, it tests all aspects of rally as a team sport, the car, driver, co-driver, service, set-up.
I have the greatest respect for Paula & Mike. Their view of rally has always come across to me as very positive with no favortism-all competitors are equal.
Rim will be a great test no matter how it is listed. "Pro" is the looser here, to bad for them. I think it is a great move and a step forward for the rally community to have an organising body make a decision to return to opening up their event to everyone equally. The desicion does not lesson the event in anyway nor does it detract from the event being promoted. Winning the event is now available to anyone!
SCCA should take note that the "Franchised events" have the control over a series-no events no series! Let the people who do the work reep the benefits of their efforts!!!
Keep up the excellent work and we'll see you next year.

:+ :+ :+ :+ :)
Inquiring minds want to know:
Are the needs and desires of the rally community being attended to by SCCA/Director of Rally/BOD or do they have their own agenda?

[rally to cave]

Paula, Mike, Denise, and all the Rim Organizers,

All of us participating in RIM say thank you for your hard work in putting on a great event. I can't imagine how tough it must have been to make this decision. I fully support your decision. My only hope is the all sponsors will continue to support RIM and make it the premier club event that attracts people nationwide.

If the SCCA is not meeting the needs of the organizers, then the decision had to be made. If other Prorallys follow suit, then either SCCA must change or, with the growth of this sport, a new entity will rise up to meet the organizer's needs.

At this year's Long Beach CART event, the SCCA had a huge amount of space showing all the cars from the various SCCA events. Guess what was missing, a rally car.

Maybe it is time for the Rim, Wild West, Prescott, Oregon Trails, and Ramanda Express organizers to join forces and create our own West Coast Championship Series. Without RIM, its even harder for an independent to compete in the pro-rally series because now it is one more x-country trip to meet the 5 pro-rally minimum. With the rallys I just mentioned, that is Five Events!

Paul Nelson

[Rich Smith]

Bravo!

Hats off to Rim Organizers! The Justice of Sport still lives!

Rich Smith

"Vive le Pro-le-Ralliat"

[gplsek]

"Paula & Mike,
I want to personally thank you for all of your help in making the SCCA Rally
programs the huge success they are. All of our organizers have been and will
continue to be important partners of the SCCA as we collectively take the
SCCA Rally programs to new heights.
There is no doubt that we all have faced challenges in the past and will
continue to do so in the future. Our Rally programs have been the fastest
growing programs in the SCCA over the last 18 months and in all likelihood
will continue to be for quite some time. With this growth comes learning,
pain and rewards. The SCCA national office is reorganizing the Rally
department to handle this great problem of growth. You will see an increased
focus on both Pro Rally and Club Rally as well as increased support for the
organizers to assist them in their challenges as well.
I support your decision based on your reasoning. I also applaud the fact
that you will continue with the Club Rally program as that is the true
backbone behind SCCA Rally. We will assist you in any way we can in the
future and if down the road you want Rim to be a part of the SCCA Pro Rally
Series again, we will be more than willing to discuss and assist you in your
plans.
You both showed a tremendous amount of class in waiting to announce your
decision till after the STPR Rally. The Rally community thanks you for that.
If I can be of any assistance to you in the future, please don't hesitate to
call.
Best Regards,
Steve Johnson"


-george

[Bill Rhodes]

Why exactly was it so good that the Rim organizers didn't announce their decision before or at STPR? These problems and issues faced by the Rim organizers are, to some extent, shared universally by all organizers. The five major western events ought to set up their own series.

Bill Rhodes

[Denise McMahon]

I agree Bill.

I see (BS) in this statement. They have known all along there have been problems, but chose to ignore the organizers plea for change. So now that another SCCA Pro Rally event is gone and went back to the format as a club rally that they make this statement. I think they know they have screwed up royally.

[Trevor Donison]

With this announcement, I really hope that the western organisers get together and figure out a way to have a meaningful Western championship that includes both Norpac & Sopac. The opportunity for lower budget teams to try for a National championship is rapidly disappearing. If this western championship comes together, expect to see me at all of the events.

As a former National Competitor and currently building another car to run Nationally, I really have to consider who I want to support. A western championship made up of clubrally results, or a "Pro" series where the hard work by volunteers is not getting appreciated. I now only have 2 events within 1700 miles of my house.

The reality is, the "Indy 500" of ProRally has decided that the kind of people they want to support are the grassroots competitors, which is what has always been the best part of Performance Rallying in North America.

If losing Rim as a ProRally doesn't get SCCA's attention, then nothing will.

[KristenT]

As my brother says, in agreeing with Jon Bogert 100% :

SCCA does do a few things well, and that's taking care of membership dues & licensing; sanctioning events; and managing event rules (okay, so maybe not really well, but they're trying).

And that's all that the head office is supposed to do! :) I guess we all have high expectations from our "club"...

I'm all for the ClubRally level- for one thing, it's cheaper to get the license, and the entry fees are on the whole cheaper! :) It's always nice to see an event of the reputation of Rim decide to keep in it as a Club event.

:) KT

[wbp]

Thanks, Mike and Paula. Thanks for having the courage to just say No, when the situation gets impossible. As one having a position requiring dealing with Kurt at a ProRally (that is impossible!) I can certainly understand your position. I hear Kurt may be around for a couple more years, so I expect your event won't be the last to give up on ProRally for now.
And I love your support for ClubRally! They are more fun.
Bill Perry

[Mad Kiwi]

Maybe its time to call Dan Panoz, maybe he can save ralling from imploding, To paule and Mike, you guys put on the best event we have done, pro or club you still have our support
Leon

[rallytaff]

Pete Morris (building "Son of CoROLLa). Mike and Paula have done us all proud and I applaud them in standing up to SCCA. I have stated all along that SCCA does nothing for the little guys. This is really going to hurt them and their current/potential sponsors. I also want to take the time to thank all those that support Mike and Paula in this decision. It takes a lot of time and effort by ALL, volunteers are #1, to put on and support a rally, but does SCCA and the bosses want to help out? No! They just want the glory. Well folks, the tables have turned and Steve Johnson's letter proves that they need us more than we need them. Johnson, I spoke to him years ago at Prescott when he joined SCCA about my concerns and to this day, until that letter has done diddly squat to change anything. You chose not to listen to the peons then but you are begging us to re-consider a decision now? I think not, you do your own thing and we'll do ours! You have the bucks, WE have the PLAYERS!!!!!!! Let me throw this one at you Steve and Kurt, get off your butt, and organise a rally and see what it takes to make it happen! NOT holding my breath on this one! I doubt if you will get many, if any, Club rally people to help you pull it off! Angry at SCCA? No, just Management, not the people who help us out with our problems. Thanks to all SCCA workers who do a great job. CLUB RALLY RULES!!!!!!!! This is no way a slap in the face to "PRO" Rally competitors. It's beyond your control unless you want to take up the issue. Let's hear from you.

[John Cassidy]

I have to weigh in and applaud the organizers of RIM as well for their decision.

We all know rallying is taking off, we know that there is monetary worth in the sport for participating manufacturers.

When the SCCA decides to take credit for an event that they merely sanctioned, then we have to ask what kind of support they're actually providing to organizers?

I'll be spending more time in Canada rallying this season than in the US and I can't help but feel it's due to lack of support for the sport from an organizing body and monetary support from manufacturers.

Everyone I know in rallying is striving to improve-new car, driving school, team website etc. Obviously, we do it because we love it! With rallying increasing in popularity here in the US, it's a shame that we don't see more support for organizers and competitors coming from the top down.

Cheers! John

[prorallymr2]

Mike and Paula,

You have our support. Let's make a positive out of this - with the collective energy and intelligence of the organizers and racers on the West Coast, anything is possible. Let me finish my MBA in Spring 2003 and then I'll have time to help in whatever way I am able.

You two are the best - we would support you guys if you decided to organize a tri-cycle racing series...in fact, it would probably be easier to get sponsors and TV time!

Hugs & Kisses,

William & Julie Yates
william@prorallymr2.com

[w siess]

This is the largest body of posts in agreement that I can recall. So far I see no declarations of "How helpful Steve has always been", or how "Kurt always returns my calls". Can it be that as we stand on sloping decks knee deep in cold water we agree that drastic times call for drastic measures?
A decision such as the "Rim" organisors have made is never easy. We should all support them in what is sure to be a very trying year!

[20 inch high]

please forgive my huge lack of ability to spell
I aplaude you with all my heart, your brave desision to stand up for your selves, and us too inspires me greatly. The Earlier post that staded that road racing and trans am are in decline is very very true. At my regions last meating i noticed that most of the guys are a lot older and road race. these guys are all great guys, but could care less about rally. there are only a handfull of people in our region that rally, actually just three of us, but they relised what an untapped resource rally is, so we are starting with trying to do rally-x's. The SCCA is growing old, when we take one of the rally cars to an auto cross the kids sworm like flies on poo. the youth of america that are involved in cars and mototrsports like two things: Import drag racing, and rally. the reason they dont rally? is because they think it is way over thier heads in cost. Holding out on organisers because they wont sign the rights to the roads over is not good. There is a huge lack of faith in the scca, and there is no reason to wonder why. localy, we aer trying to do good things, and make progress, look at the chatanooga region, i am astounded at the way they have grown, and very quikly at that. is it just a coincedence that this surge has come with the invent of cherokee trails? no way, its from the hard work of the organisers and the many awsome volunteers in that region. the SCCA is very scared now( when i say scca i mean her spitsner and the spitsner youth) there is a LOT of paranoia up there right now, and the simplist joke can be taken and turned into something that is way out of wack and off the wall. we will allways loose with bad leadership, but what is worse is a LACK of leadership.
Josh Turner
SeDiv Gr2 champ

[robm]

>Maybe its time to call Dan Panoz, maybe he can save ralling
>from imploding

Any thoughts on how he would fit into the equation? I could see him doing a US equivalent of a Super 1600 series (he's already got manufacturing facilites, US TV contracts, and ALMS TV coverage in Europe). Might not be too much of a stretch....

Would you be willing to take him for some fun runs and get him hooked on Rally?

Rob

[Crash]

du hast mich gefragt, und ich hab nichts gesagt

[Ramstien Rally]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, you rule dude!
josh , aka 20 inch high